I don't think the enchant is that bad. The link that you put shows that a warrior happened to get that proc chance. This isn't really a definitive test to prove that is the proc chance.
It seems to me like there are two things to consider with this enchant, the minor DPS/TPS increase that the proc gives and the increased parry that you get from uptime of the buff. I know that people have different gear, but most tend to stack dodge and not parry, so the DR from having an extra 200-1000 parry wouldn't be as great as listed in that thread. I've looked at my WMO, Blade Warding rarely procs but the uptime does seem significant. WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish My name is Vorenus, look at both proc and buff uptime.
That and I'm tired of the green potency glow and accuracy, red glow is sexy.
Would love to hear other people's experience with this enchant.
but most tend to stack dodge and not parry, so the DR from having an extra 200-1000 parry wouldn't be as great as listed in that thread.
If given the option between dodge and parry, we choose dodge yes. We cannot dictate how blizzard itemises though, and so it happends to turn out that the pre ulduar best in slot list had much more parry rating than dodge rating. (and believe this is still true for the known current ulduar gear)
Even at equal parry and dodge numbers, parry suffers more from the DR and adds less avoidance.
While on the subject of the new enchants, we had Blood Drain drop from Kologarn a few nights ago so I decided to give it a whirl. I haven't done any huge study of it but I'm satisfactorily unimpressed. It takes an uncomfortable amount of time to stack up to five and then the buff only lasts for twenty seconds. If you're doing anything that doesn't involve hitting a target constantly, such as running between adds, don't be surprised if it falls off. This is doing it with a 1.6 weapon too; if you were using Broken Promise (2.5) I'd expect it to drop often as WoWhead lists it as a 50% proc chance, not PPM based.
One good thing going for it is that it gains healing from talents. A full stack healed me for 2.2k which I would imagine is the effect of Improved Devotion Aura and Divinity. I was trying to see if it double dipped Divinity but it doesn't appear to.
I'd strongly suggest leaving this one to the Druids.
Has anyone else been having issues with Glyph of Righteous Defense since the patch? My understanding is that the glyph alone is enough to guarantee that it will always hit, yet last night on Razorscale I got this:
Has anyone else been having issues with Glyph of Righteous Defense since the patch? My understanding is that the glyph alone is enough to guarantee that it will always hit, yet last night on Razorscale I got this:
I'd really be interested to see if anyone else has experienced this since the patch?
It just increases the chance it will hit by 8%, but RD (like other taunts) uses the spell miss chance, not the melee miss chance, so you still need enough +hit on your gear to make up for the rest. You should look through some first posts to find the current spell miss versus bosses. it used to be 17%, but I'm not sure if it changed at all when our melee miss chance dropped to 8%.
I don't think the enchant is that bad. The link that you put shows that a warrior happened to get that proc chance. This isn't really a definitive test to prove that is the proc chance.
...
That and I'm tired of the green potency glow and accuracy, red glow is sexy.
Would love to hear other people's experience with this enchant.
The findings that he came up with was that once you had any stacks up, any parry would remove the whole stack. Warriors probably have more weapon attacks then paladins (Devistate/Revenge/Conc Blow/Attack/Cleave) which should give it a better chance per attack to get stacks.
As far as other glow enchants, you can always get Agility, Mongoose, or even the Titanium Weapon Chain (this is kind of moot due to the PoJ talent now).
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As far as healing ability wasn't DP changed to affect only Holy Light and Flash of Light, or did that not go through at all in the PTR.
I will also second Power Auras. It's a god send on my hunter, but I just havn't been able to set one up for my Paladin (prot or ret) at all. Perhaps we can get a list of people who use it and what their auras are that they're using, to better tanks so that we can concentrate on doing other things than looking for our cooldown monitor.
Plea only affects heals from Flash, HL, and Shock. Other heals like Divine Storm and Lay on Hands are not affected anymore.
I use ClassTimers for SS and other buffs I care about tracking.
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I did a little testing with blade ward by flying to Zul'Drak and soloing Thrym. Gear should be what's in my armory profile as I didn't change anything, although the armory seems to note be calculating sacred duty/combat expertise for stamina at the moment. Although this isn't raid buffed, I thought it a better test than just beating on a dummy since he actually fights back, leading to slightly more melee swings from myself due to parryhasting.
I managed to get it to stack 2 or 3 times, 11 total procs over 7 minutes 32 seconds (I forgot to start logging before I pulled him. :-\). Whilst I agree that procs which are instantly removed by a parry are annoying, it's also quite unlikely given your actual parry chance percentage. I'll report back with further testing later tonight in Ulduar25.
Incidentally I quite recommend Thrym for testing. Aside from the slight smugness you get from people flying past and wondering quite what you're doing, he also respawns very quickly.
It's 353 block value with Redoubt, so it's a 104bv drop from the current libram we use. Although, this one should be up 98-100% of the time, while the current is only up 62.5% of the time.
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Are any paladins having a hard time tanking in Ulduar?
I've never had much of a problem, and I'm in very decent gear, but when we do 25 man Uld now...bosses are hitting me for over 20,000+...terrifically fast. And even though I have tons of avoidance, my healers are telling me I get hit too hard in comparison to our Warrior and DK tank.
I'm having zero problems tanking Ulduar25 aasimar. Your healers are probably biased, or your warrior isn't keeping up demo shout when he's not tanking the boss (We generally have our DPS warrior do this.). Ulduar 25 bosses will hit a tank for 20K quite comfortably, class is fairly irrelevant. If your healers are having trouble keeping a tank up through fairly slow but heavy swings, they probably don't have proper assignments. On XT002 for example, 2-3 healers on the MT is more than enough as long as they dont deviate from their task and cross heal. This isn't Naxx, they need discipline.
It's hard to say much more really without a WWS to look at.
Gear notes:
Change the 30 stamina shoulder enchant to the defence enchant from hodir. It's 20 item points of stamina versus 35 item points of defense and dodge (With the exalted one). This will also buff your avoidance slightly.
Your overall avoidance is a little low, this is probably a combination of having a few 10man pieces and block rating items. This obviously can't be helped if different items won't drop for you though. That said stamnina is basically king when it comes to progression tanking. Being able to survive two high-end damage swings from a boss is gold compared to praying you dodge the next attack.
I'd say your stats are fine. I'd recommend switching from Sanctified Battle to Crusade and taking 3 points out of Conviction and 1 out of imp Judgement and putting in Divinity. You went avoidance more than me and your gear seems fine with that way(I'm assuming you're MTing mostly, else SBV way will serve you better in OT role). Well yeah your gear is fine(the belt is probably your weakest spot I'd say) but you really shouldn't be facing a lot of issues, or at least not any more than tanks of other classes.
That avoidance is perfectly fine for Ulduar 25, and counting talents your stamina should be alright too. Really there's nothing you seem to be doing wrong, you even have the divine plea glyph (I love that thing.). The honoured shoulder enchant is fine too, the extra flexibility from the defense allows for more stamina from gems and such too. It will also reduce your reliance on [Repelling Charge].
Again, not much else I can say without a WWS or equivalent. But your gear seems fine for Ulduar25 really. If you want to put the effort in, [Indestructible Potion] will cut down your damage intake for 2 minutes. But honestly I'd say the issue lies with your healers who are trying to deflect blame from them sucking onto your class.
Are any paladins having a hard time tanking in Ulduar?
I've never had much of a problem, and I'm in very decent gear, but when we do 25 man Uld now...bosses are hitting me for over 20,000+...terrifically fast. And even though I have tons of avoidance, my healers are telling me I get hit too hard in comparison to our Warrior and DK tank.
I can say that my healers have all said they prefer to heal me than our Warrior tank. The combination of Divinity, me keeping SS up on myself, and the fact that I take smaller, consistent hits rather than spiky hits makes them happier.
My only concerns in Ulduar is AoE threat over DKs, other than that I am able to tank almost every boss (Vezax I haven't tried, we cheese it with a Druid using catform sprint). Single target Paladin threat is the best by far.
For Thorim we have come across a few difficulties. Our DK pulls massive amounts of threat over me with his DoTs/Pestilence/UB/Death and Decay whereas my Ret aura/Consecrate/HotR doesn't cut it. I end up just RDing everything off him to make it easier for AoE while getting ToT spammed on me while the DK picks up any loose adds. It would be nice if Consecrate had an extra +threat modifier but I can also see this being very overpowered for single target threat.
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The combination of Divinity, me keeping SS up on myself, and the fact that I take smaller, consistent hits rather than spiky hits makes them happier.
Those two (buffed SS talents + full Divinity) are perhaps what people are missing when they have issues with Pally tanking. The only bad things are no multi-target tanking debuff (the 20% slow is single target, you could Judge tab Judge to get it on two) and no Last Stand.
Originally Posted by forostie
It would be nice if Consecrate had an extra +threat modifier but I can also see this being very overpowered for single target threat.
Adding threat to Cons may mess up Ret Pallies, however putting that ability in an existing talent could work.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
Adding threat to Cons may mess up Ret Pallies, however putting that ability in an existing talent could work.
I agree with the talent part, though having said that I've never seen a Pink bar register anywhere close to the top with even on nuke fights like Vezax. Either way I believe something should be done about our AoE threat - DKs are just too powerful in this regard.
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Personally between the glyph and taking Imp Lay on Hands, I think we get the better end of the deal where I can pop LOH once a pull if I have to. Just a good oh sh*t button to have.
...
If you want to put the effort in, [Indestructible Potion] will cut down your damage intake for 2 minutes...
Just a quick, and probably obvious note: you can pop 1 [Indestructible Potion] just before you pull and are in combat, that way you are able to chug another during combat giving you 4 minutes or so of uptime.
I chain chug these things all the time. They are pretty cheap, and offer a good chunk of mitigation.
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I've been saving up some Indestructible Potions for use in Ulduar, and you're right. They're very handy.
As for our librams, [Libram of the Sacred Shield] is 353 BV with 100% uptime as opposed to [Libram of Obstruction]'s 457 with 55% uptime (assuming ideal situation where you judge every 9 seconds), meaning it averages 254 BV. It's essentially 100 BV increase on average.
Depending on your block chance, there is a certain point where Libram of Obstruction is a better choice for AoE tanking. If you're tanking enough mobs that Holy Shield isn't likely to last 5 seconds (meaning the buff falls off when HS runs out of charges), then LoO is a better choice for more uptime and thus more mitigation (because it won't fall off when HS runs out).
Napkin math, assuming a 60% block chance (which is about what I have when I wear my block/bv set which has roughly 30% block chance plus HS's 30%) and a mob swing timer of 2ish seconds:
Each mob has 5 chances to remove a charge of holy shield before the buff is renewed. 3 of these will more than likely do so, so in a worst-case scenario, 3 charges are removed in 6 seconds (because of the 2ish second swing timer). 2 mobs will remove 6 charges in 6 seconds, and a third mob will bump it up to 9 in 6 seconds, which is one more than HS actually has charges. Thus, if you're tanking 3+ with short swing timers (<=2sec) and you're in a block set with somewhere around 60% block chance, you may want to consider Libram of Obstruction for more mitigation when AoEtanking because LotSS won't last as long.
Please PLEASE tell me if I'm wrong or way off base with that math, but I think it's roughly accurate. I don't do much napkin math, though, so someone who is more familiar with it and can do more accurate calculations should probably check it.
I calculated this thing over on wowhead at comment section of LotSS(Artharas) and Pallidum came with math from another direction on this matter.
It will take ~6 mob with a swing time of 2.4(debuffed) for LotSS to become worse than LoO. This is assuming the paladin has 50% avoidance(which I have raid buffed in SBV set).
So no your math isn't totally accurate(well you assume faster attack speed than most mobs use debuffed and less avoidance) but it is correct that LoO still can come infront of LotSS on some occasions such as heavy multimob situation and there's also the occasion when you're doing your læl dps in a phase not requiring you to tank hence you won't use Holy Shield.
On another hand, with LotSS you can do exorcism instead of judgement without loosing out on Libram's SBV. In the end I dare say LotSS will outperform LoO in far most situations.
04/21/09, 3:24 PM
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