The Protection Paladin Field Manual (WoW-3.0/WotLK) - Page 58

Doriangray · 03/11/09, 5:32 PM

Block rating increases your chance to block. Block value is just that: it increases for how much you block - and, by extension, for how much your shield of righteousness hits.

Spenda · 03/11/09, 7:01 PM

Originally Posted by Maelstrom

RD Glyph (Neccesary, especially as there seem to be a few taunt fights)

Now that we have Hand of Reckoning is this really "necessary?"

• promdates · 03/11/09, 7:45 PM

Hand of Reckoning uses the spell hit afaik. RD uses spell hit as well, but the glyph gives it an extra 8%, so it should never miss/resist. I've had HoR resist/miss, used RD and got it right away.

Cathela · 03/11/09, 8:34 PM

Originally Posted by NinjaSquirrel

When reviewing all of the possible "epic" replacements for these two trinkets, I only see 3 options:
[Darkmoon Card: Greatness]
[Valor Medal of the First War]
[Rune of Repulsion]

I assume that since block value produces more threat than dodge or parry, that neither the valor medal nor the rune of repulsion is an upgrade for the lavanthor's trinket. Is this correct?

When looking at the wowhead page for the Greatness card, it says the static strength translates to 54 block value (Edit: the number I looked at was a warrior number, wowhead does not actually say how much straight block the strength translates to for a prot pally. But my question about the difference between value and rating still applies). Does this translate differently than the 74 block rating on Lavanthor's? Or does it just mean that I lose % block and the terms value and rating are interchangable on this stat?

What Doriangray said about block rating vs block value.

If you've got the hit table filled all the way up to 102.4, then adding block value takes a small amount of damage away from every incoming attack, while adding parry/dodge rating increases the chance that you'll completely avoid any given attack. They're both valid ways to go, and which one is better depends on what you're shooting for.

For a paladin with Divine Strength and BoK, the +90 strength on the Darkmoon card comes out to 90*1.15*1.10 = 114 strength, which is equivalent to getting 228 AP and 57 block value on a piece of gear (before the blockvalue bonus from Redoubt comes into play). The +300 str from the proc actually gives 380 strength on the character sheet, or 760 AP and 190 block value. Speaking strictly in terms of mitigation, it's not really an upgrade over Lavanthor's, and it's arguably worse, especially if you like the controllable on-click blockvalue from Lavanthor. The Darkmoon Card is really a threat/dps trinket, in fact really the best threat trinket in the game. (It also does handy double duty if you respec Ret.)

Ivriniel · 03/12/09, 3:29 AM

Originally Posted by stabbymcgee

Hand of Reckoning uses the spell hit afaik. RD uses spell hit as well, but the glyph gives it an extra 8%, so it should never miss/resist. I've had HoR resist/miss, used RD and got it right away.

I am still hoping they fix that for 3.1. I am one of the people who simply had to many bad situations with RD so I mostly use HoR these days. If there's taunt fights, we do need a +hit glyph for our single target taunt else it already loses half it's value again.

rikimarutenchu · 03/12/09, 6:00 AM

<----- Long time listener, first time caller. (If I recall correctly) (This is a few questions poorly broken down, so I'm going to number them for my reference if someone wants to use the numbers)

1: I know this is probably going to be an uphill fight, but I never let go of the ways of the SP tankadin. I MT with the [The Turning Tide], and I'm trying to figure out, barring the defensive stats which I don't need at my gear level, why is the [Last Laugh] better? Is it SOLELY because it's a "tanking weapon," and not associated with it's threat gen? I can't see how single target HotR, white damage, ShoR, and the AP scale of our skills from 72.7 base DPS, 24 hit rating, and 37 strength outweighs five-hundred twenty spellpower. (And for those keeping score, 37 crit rating too)

(Plus either 65 AP on Last Laugh or 63 spellpower on Turning Tide figuring normalcy. I'm not accounting for enchants not in game yet.)

I've always regarded armour to live, weapon to fight, and thus used what I felt would be the better threat generator. Is there a merit to my decision?

2: Before that gets argued into the ground, also can I ask (Yes, I'm a douche who goes for up-front damage) does the SoR glyph effect its judgment too? As in if I solely use SoR, its glyph will be more effective than the judgments glyph? Probably the biggest reason I stuck with it is that my guild wipes more on trash than bosses because of errant DPS who look for the mob with the most health (and thus likely least threat) and stick with him to minimize downtime on hitting stuff to get the DPS of the night E-Peen, and faceroll through the night. (I also am not accounting for glyphs not in game yet either, this will change in 3.1 the way things are going.)

2a: (It took the DPS classes [besides a few mages and DKs] over a month to push me out of the top 5 on DPS over the night, and top 10 on DPS on bosses [Patchwerk was embarrassing to some] when we moved up to 25-mans. Was that normal? Did anyone else experience that?)

3: I also think our tier is not best in slot, and only have the gloves. I look like a death knight with golden gauntlets and a shield. (Even have a ghetto runeblade

) If that's wrong convince me otherwise, I'm always willing to learn more.

• Mex · 03/12/09, 6:56 AM

1. No, LL is better TPS.

2. I'm not sure about GoSoR, but I would assume that it doesn't. Even if it did, you'd be better off sticking with SoV glyph and teaching your DPS to L2P. SoR can be useful, mostly for the increased judgement snap agro on undebuffed targets, but otherwise is very inferior.

2a. In the first two weeks of WotLK my DPS was middle of the pack on several bosses and peaking near #1 on large trash pulls. Against DPS with Amphitheatre main hands and TBC offhands you'll generally do much better, but you don't scale even remotely as well. A month is too slow but your DPS should surpass you.

3. Tank gear requirements vary too heavily for "best in slot" to be a valid term for our gear. TPS, Avoidance, Stamina, Block, Armour, etc all can vary between almost useless and critical depending on the encounter.

Lightbender · 03/12/09, 7:10 AM

Last Laugh is much, much better than the Turning Tide. Hammer of the Righteous, for example, will hit for almost double with Last Laugh. The strength on Last Laugh increases your block and therefore directly increases your Shield of Righteousness damage, and consecration and other spells gain much more from attack power than from spellpower now.

Not to mention the extra stam on last laugh is some spellpower and then all the tank stats etc.

ElginRoko · 03/12/09, 7:52 AM

Turning Tide has 506 more SP after TbtL and %stam increases. That's 162 damage per consecrate, 167 per Judgement , 44.5 per fully stacked SoV tick and 59 per block. Over 18s (assuming 2s attack speed, 30% block) that's 1084 extra damage.

LL has 30 BV, 103 more AP and 80 more dps (inc AP), that's 320 more damage per HotR, 39 per ShoR, 33 per cons, 21.6 per Judgement, 19.5 per SoV tick and 7.8 per block. Over 18s that's 1324 holy damage.

So yeah, LL generates more threat even if you ignore the substantial white damage increase. I'm pretty sure that the 4 in HotR's 4*dps was purposefully selected by blizz to make sure that paladin threat scaled better with conventional weapons than with those converting dps to spellpower.

jula · 03/12/09, 9:52 AM

Use TT with SP enchant for threat boost when aoe tanking when the minor survivability difference doesn't matter much (+ conc libram for even greater effect).
Use LL the rest of the time.

When u have to tank say 10 mobs being aoed, u basically have only your conc and holy shield working for you and those two gain more from the SP weapon. Ofc you still use your other abilities but there will be some mobs those abilities wont hit, and u still need to hold aggo on those mobs (and those are the mobs most likely to go loose and go kill your casters). This is where the SP weapon has the advantage.

Note: The crafted SP mace is a solid weapon alternative to TT (you might want to leave that to your casters).

• frmorrison · 03/12/09, 10:14 AM

The Conc Libram is very weak (since Cons scales off SP/AP), the libram only does half the damage the designers intended.

It is better to use the normal badge libram, since the block value helps with mitigation/damage.

Bluerelic · 03/13/09, 11:09 AM

Through some extensive testing I'm worried about the changes to Divine Plea, and the possible removal of Spiritual Attunement, since it seems to be half bugged on the PTR at the moment. I looked for a post relative to this change, but I also have something to ask relative to tanking in general so I thought this would be the best place to start. Aside from the serious mana issues removing SA and relying on Divine Plea will cause. There seems to be a bug with Divine Plea which causes some of our more reactive heals to reduce healing by 50%. I've posted on the official forums but due to flamers and general ignorance no one seems to care or understand what I'm getting at.

These are the things that will be affected by by Divine Plea, look how many of these will be on the tank: Seal of Light, Judgement of Light, Leader of the Pack procs, Blood Aura, Prayer of Mending, Lifebloom when it blooms, Earth Shield, Health Potions, Health Stones, Bandages, Lay on Hands. These are the ones i have personally tested and found to be affected by Divine Plea.

Things i haven't gotten to check are like Glyphed Power Word: Shield, since this is a bloom type effect on a buff that you receive, I did test Beacon of Light on the PTR, it works fine. But, i dont know every heal every healer uses, haven't gotten to test things like the new rejuv glyph or nourish, but any of these could fall under the "blooming" effect like lifebloom does.

I trust that people will go out and test this, cause they're concerned or just to prove me wrong, but either way, I have personally tested every ability on that list, and Divine Plea gimps all of them. With the changes to our mana needs, if the fully intend on having Divine Plea with a 100% uptime this is gonna spell bad news for prot pallies at least until they fix it.

SeanDamnit · 03/13/09, 1:59 PM

I would imagine that things like Lifebloom, Earthshield, Lay on hands, PoM...basically heals from other people...being affected by Divine Plea is a bug. But I wouldn't hold my breath on health pots, SoL/JoL, Blood Aura, Bandages, etc...

Spenda · 03/13/09, 2:22 PM

Originally Posted by Bluerelic

These are the things that will be affected by by Divine Plea, look how many of these will be on the tank: Seal of Light, Judgement of Light, Leader of the Pack procs, Blood Aura, Prayer of Mending, Lifebloom when it blooms, Earth Shield, Health Potions, Health Stones, Bandages, Lay on Hands. These are the ones i have personally tested and found to be affected by Divine Plea.

Off the top of my head, other things that would possibly be impacted:
Resto Druid - Living seed (reactive heal like PoM and Earth Shield)
Blood Death Knight - Mark of Blood (not sure if this procs as self healing, or healing from the attacking mob)
Holy Priest - Guardian Spirit (Not sure if the sacrificing 50% max health heal is a self heal or not)

vorda · 03/13/09, 4:34 PM

It would seem the removal of SA is intended (going from the ret topic). I hope this doesnt make us extremely dependant on BoSanc (thus increasing our weakness vs spellcasters). Looking forward to see how they are going to change this for ret and prot.

Making SA a talent would be a very valid option actually, I think the ability worked perfectly for prot.