Jebes

DUH refers to Demon, Undead, Humanoid (and Elemental). Basically mobs that are affected by the Crusade talent.

 

SeanDamnit

Note that while Ulduar pretty much has none of these mobs, almost every boss in ToC is a DUH mob. But the difference between a SotP and Crusade specs are pretty minimal, so it really doesn't matter...especially seeing how much threat we're putting out right now. Flip a coin or something...

Card carrying member of the Inapropriately in Love with Hilary Duff Society.

"Yeah, well, if we could all get what we want I would be eating dinner out of Hilary Duff's skull right now" - Salabesh

 

Arthurios

Where does it say that Resilience doesn't count for crit immunity anymore? I can't find anything and I use gladiator gear for tanking for slots where I haven't been able to obtain comparable gear yet.

Please halp!

 

Arthurios

sry dbl post

 

• frmorrison

Resilience still removes crits, however the Defense/dodge enchant will remove more crit %. Also, that guy never said resilience doesn't remove crit, just in 3.2 it increased amount of the Resilience per 1% crit removal.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

RoosterJ

Seeing as how they nerfed our threat by 10%, would it be viable to lose 2 points in Judgements of the Just and put those points into Seals of the Pure? I am currently specced down to Crusade for increased damage. The 2 points in Judgements of the Just are the only 2 points i can justify losing while keeping the minimum 51 points in the Prot tree.

I am trying to maximize my threat through talents...or is all i can do is stack more SBV? ATM...i have about 2000 SBV fully buffed in 25 mans and just over 2400 SBV with libram procs.

This is my current build:
The World of Warcraft Armory

This is the build im looking to go to:
The World of Warcraft Armory

 

Capstone

STR > SBV for threat. Judgements of the Just is probably your highest mitigation talent IF no one else is providing the debuff for you, so in some situations it can be rather disadvantageous to drop. JotJ also gives another pseudo-attack on the boss which procs SoV, so I'm not sure how much of a threat increase SotP would actually be.

 

RoosterJ

We do run with 2 dps warriors. If i can get the to keep thunderclap debuff up every 10 sec...would it be worth it?

 

Kandiru

You need 1/2 in JotJ to activate "I'm a prot paladin can I have SoV procs off judgement plix" mode.

This is probably a bug.

But anyway, going to 0/2 JotJ will cost you threat due to the loss of SoV procs from judgement.

 

Maelstrom

Firstly, it's a 5% nerf.

10/190 ~= 0.05 (i.e. 10% less from 190% is a relative 5% decrease)

I would advise against degrading your talent spec by skipping JotJ, since it's a mandatory debuff and it's very rare to be guaranteed that you'll always have someone to cover for you (DPS Warrior/DK died? Ohshi, more tank damage now.). DPS warriors also can not Tclap in zerker stance, so they'd have to always be arms, or shit up their dps. Non-frost DPS DKs also tend to skip improved icey touch for the full 20% slow.

Really, I'd say you should probably do some empirical testing in raids as to whether you actually need to get more threat. There's a reason righteous fury got nerfed, and it was because we did generate frankly ludicrous amounts of aggro.

 

Haelfdane

This is true. We had plenty of extra threat to lose so this is not a big deal. It's less now, sure, but still plenty. Went through VoA, TotC, and Onyxia smoothly with no agro issues tonight. I didn't change spec at all and even left my 24 hit gear on just to see what kind of an impact it would have. We're fine, and should continue business as usual.

 

Kellee

1.8 * 1.43 = 2.574

Our threat reduction is a lot larger since RF multiplies with baked-in salv, that is why our threat has been retarded since 3.0, Blizzard did not change RF to be at a standard with other threat increasing talents/stances.
Not having JotJ is not really an issue as long as you have a frost dk present, the loss of threat from the extra hit is not that substantial plus extra hits mean that holy shield procs more which would cover if not give extra threat over the lost hit.

 

Maelstrom

Er, no.

1.9 * 1.43 = 2.717 (or 271.7% RF modifier)
1.8 * 1.43 = 2.574 (or 257.4% RF modifier)

(2.717 - 2.574) / 2.717 = 0.0526 (..)

It's still 5%. That and the baked-in salv modifier remains unchanged and so our threat from white damage remains unchanged, which is not insignificant.

Oh, and taking more damage to give you more aggro, which is basically what you espouse with not having JotJ up, is probably best left to really bad tanks.

 

• frmorrison

Even if your frost DK is good about keeping FF up, sometimes he will be sick or forgets to refresh the buff, or more likely is attacking something that you are not. JotJ is mandatory for a good tank, plus you get a noticeable threat increase (JotJ procs SoV).

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

DonkieKong

I read the Manual, found a solid prot build, geared up and reached 540+ defense, I am using all epic gear... I set up my buttons for the 6/9 rotation, started tanking and it works. But I have been fighting one issue that the Manual seemed to imply would never be an issue for me: I keep running out of mana! It's so bad that I have to use SoW all the time, judge wis, and click DP and my racial AT (blood elf) just to have enough mana to last out the fight. And lately it seems like I am not building up enough threat either - maybe because I am conserving mana and not going through the rotation as fast as it should be done. Something fundamental is wrong and I don't know what it is. Do I click the next spell as soon as it is available? When I did that the first time, I soon ran out of mana and was screwed. TYIA

 

jere

The other tank classes also have the baked in salv, which was multiplicative with their stances. That's the standard for righteous fury, bear form, defensive stance, and frost presence.

 

Kazekan

I assume you're talking about raids - if you're talking about 5 mans, you'll probably find yourself drinking quite a bit between pulls, however you still shouldn't have too much of an issue keeping your mana up... just start DP before you even pull.

You answered your own question with:

SoW is not a tanking seal so of course you're going to lose massive amounts of threat when trying to use it. Judging Wisdom is fine, however using the actual seal really isn't. If you're having issues with mana take points out of things like Divine Guardian and PoJ and put them into Benediction instead. You also only need 1 point in Imp. Judgements, not 2. Divine Sacrifice is also potentially something you could drop, however if your guild requires all available pallies get this skill then I suppose not... but you really should leave it to the holy (or even Ret) pallies if at all possible.

Do you use Kings or Sanctuary if you can't have both? Especially with the new patch out now, Sanctuary is better than ever.

That's okay, a link is built into your profile when you created your account. All we need to do is click your character name.

Your available mana pool is also unnecessary as every prot paladin should have roughly the same mana pool since there should be no INT on any of your gear. Only buffs will bring this value beyond the base.

 

DonkieKong

My bad.

 

Kayvaun

Alright so i checked out your gear and you're sitting at about an average mana pool. There are a few things that can be causing this problem and a few ways to help out your mana problem that i can see. First, you need to make sure you always have Divine Plea up (this isn't hard because of Guarded by the Light but is still something to make sure of). Second, make sure you keep holy shield up, as well as blessing of sanct on yourself at all times. These two combine to give you a substantial amount of mana back (2% of base pool every time you block,dodge, parry) plus the 30% block you gain from Holy shield insures a steady mana income (boosts my block from ~20 up to ~50%). Finally if you're doing this and you are still having problems with mana, i suggest getting rid of Glyph of Righteous Defense and going for Glyph of Shield of Righteous, and you could also re-spec into Benediction in the Ret tree considering every tanking skill is instant cast the mana reduction is quite significant. BUT keep in mind that the mana gained from blocks, parries, etc depends on the mobs' attack speed, and how often you dodge, parry, etc. I tend to have a hard time keeping my mana up on mobs in Heroics, but have no trouble with mana on 10/25 toc bosses.

On another note, in general you should be firing off the next talent in the 6/9 rotation as soon as it is up. if you do it properly it should be constantly burning your global cool down. This rotation of course gets interrupted if you have to taunt, cast DP again, etc. but a continuous cycle should be maintained.

Hope that helps

 

Haelfdane

Actually, the reason you don't have mana issues in raids has a lot more to do with 1) Replenishment and other mana returns going on than you'll usually have in 5mans 2) Length of fights making DP uptime extremely easy to manage 3) Mana regained via Spiritual Attunement because you are taking a LOT more damage than 5mans.

What you should not be doing is dodge/block/parrying level 83 mobs more than 80 and under mobs, it's the other way around. Sanc should be working double-overtime on trash and 5man where multiple weak targets are attacking you.

That's why a higher str and BV set with healthy block rating is good for 5man content, and you'll notice that kind of gear yields higher threat per mana used so you won't have to do things like spam consecrate vs the all-out stamina and avoidance we like for raid bosses.

 

Kallell

In addition, in most 5 man instances if you're only pulling one pack at a time, I usually drop Consecration once, if at all, and only use Avenger's Shield to pull, never in midfight. Both of these tricks can help save your mana pool. In fact, when you get good enough with Hammer of the Righteous you can pull with it instead of Avenger's Shield and save mana. Always have Divine Plea up before fighting, and remember the auto refresh of DP works by HITTING mobs, not by them hitting you.

 

PallyTanking11

Haven't got the time to look at your glyphs, but a some suggestions:

1. Glyph of avengers shield doesn't help your 5-man threat.
2. Glyph of HotR is VERY helpful with TRASH.
3. It could be that I have better gear, but I never use the full rotation in 5 mans--there is no need and it eats mana.
4. If you pull and there are loose mobs that you didn't hit, then try targeting the ones you didn't hit.
5. Feel free to taunt if you accidentally let one go! Righeous defense is really nice for this.
6. If you have trouble with mana still after my and all these other peoples suggestions, then reroll a death knight, they are pretty fun and don't have mana or threat problems OK, just kidding about that one!

 

Arkenn

I have recently been mulling over replacing my tier 8.5 protection legs for the 245 rating trophy legs. what i am having an issue with is the loss of avoidance and strength. With the change in our spell power now multiplying with our strength this could be a bigger issue than the avoidance but it is only 10 str. Now the tier 9 legs will make me over hit cap and increase my BV by 270 but neither of those are appealing to me. So, any suggestions? I have been undecided for a good two weeks now. Thanks in advance.

 

Philleous

Hi all

First time poster, long time reader.

Just wondering what the opinion is on some of the Onyxia Loot? I'm mainly talking about the value of HP5 ([Purified Onyxia Blood Talisman], from the head quest), but also has anyone got any data on the proc from the [Burnished Quel'Serrar]? Looks like a nice sword to me, and I really want one (for vanity if it turns out the proc is rubbish). And then theres the ring ([Signified Ring of Binding]) - should we qualify the resist stats as useful - or are they junk stats? And do they count towards the item budget? (I know for example on the helms, the shadow and fire resist is off the budget)

Any insight or opinion would be appreciated! Thanks

 

Ualde

what is the best libram for prot-pally now?
my choice still "Libram of the Sacred Shield" [Libram of the Sacred Shield]

and what is uptime for "Libram of Defiance" [Libram of Defiance]

can be swapped?