VikingIrishman

I have an inquiry about the Prot Mitigation string. It lists Int as a 0.0 value. If Int were meant to be ignored entirely, it would just not be included, right? I've been assuming that it is a slip of the finger and is supposed to be rated at 0.9, but I'd like to know for sure.

 

• frmorrison

You are correct, Int is worthless to Prot. I was thinking that I should point that out by putting a 0 there.

Be warned, I am not a Prot expert; I believe I just took the numbers from a Wowhead thread and tweaked them a bit to account for Expertise being not so great as the Wowhead guy was thinking.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

VikingIrishman

Alright, thanks. I've been using this string for a good while now, and it really does make a difference. ^_^

 

Alarius

frmorrison, would you advise using your PVE Ret values with a 0 for hit to better weigh an item once you're satisfied with your current amount of hit?

 

• frmorrison

You could do that, but hit isn't worth 0 unless you have 8% hit (7 for Alliance). Also hit has a value past that (although low) due to Exorcism and Cons tics.

However, if you are at a point where hit is starting to reach a cap, then static values will be off, and you should look at a spreadsheet for better guidance (I prefer Redcape's).

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Blackthought

Are there agreed upon weightings for 3.1 now that the 2roll system has been confirmed for our specials?

 

Redcape

Sort of.

With the latest versions of the spreadsheets we seem to be pretty close together, though we never have perfect agreement. The weights I have are:

Weapon Speed 33580 (per 100 weapon speed, obviously only useful as a weighting)
Weapon DPS 617
Hit rating 213
Str 166
Exp rating 154
Crit rating 81
Agil 76
Haste rating 72
Armor Penetration 72
AP 66
SP 15

The other sheets come pretty close to these values, so you should be fine to use these.

 

Vonhagen

Here are redcape's above values in a handy Pawn format.

( Pawn: v1: "Ret": ArmorPenetration=0.72, ExpertiseRating=1.54, CritRating=0.81, Dps=6.17, Strength=1.66, Agility=0.76, HasteRating=0.72, Speed=33.58, SpellPower=0.15, HitRating=2.13, Ap=0.66 )

Actually nevermind, looks like this is on the first post.

 

RobertM

Have you considered adding values for regular gem colors (e.g., 26.56 for a red socket for "Ret PvE", assuming a [Bold Scarlet Ruby] for that slot)? Personally, I calculate them and add them in manually, and others might find this useful. Admittedly, if someone chooses to ignore socket bonuses it won't be accurate, but it would still be, IMO, more useful than completely ignoring the sockets altogether. (Though doesn't Pawn have an option to use "best" gemming or forced matching?)

 

• frmorrison

My personal pawn value has a number for gems there, so I added it to the OP as well.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

mrruben5

Very nice, may I point you to your values on your first page, the ret pve scale lists DPS twice. Is this intentional?

 

Braque

My Holy Paladin scales, based on some heavy spreadsheet work + theory craft.

( Pawn: v1: "Holy (new)": Intellect=0.09, RedSocket=4.13, HasteRating=0.038, BlueSocket=3.24, YellowSocket=5.16, SpellPower=0.14, Mp5=0.061, CritRating=0.042 )

For those interested, the spreadsheet used to come up with these values is here:

http://homepage.mac.com/codemonkey_u...in.numbers.zip

Enjoy.

 

vorda

I'm confused at your insane value for sockets compared to raw stats.
Common logic says a socket should hold the value of the most optimal gem you're putting in it (which can be derived from stat values). In your case, that's SP.
19*0.14 = 2.66. Your sockets are almost double this amount.

I'd check your spreadsheet to see where the mistake is, but I don't have excel on this pc.

edit: also, when making pawn strings, it's best to assume you fill every socket with your 'best gem'. If the socket bonus is good enough to follow the colors, you can decide so on your own. But for every item with a bad socket bonus you don't want, your string is going to mess up the value alot (assuming you balance your socket value with the gem you're putting in it ofc..)

 

Capstone

That's incorrect, actually... Pawn has a checkbox that allows you to decide whether to enforce color matching or to use best gemming; if you have it use best gemming, it will check whether your highest value gems are better than color-matched gems + socket bonus, and use the higher of the two values as the Pawn score.

 

vorda

I see, been too long since I bothered with pawn obviously. Anyway, socket values are out of scale, but the sheet is/was being discussed in the holy pala topic and from what I read there, it has some major errors.

 

Capstone

Now that Rawr is relatively accurate for all three specs, I'd recommend using Rawr with your gearset and talents to look up Relative Stat Values and just steal those numbers for a Pawn scale setup. I believe you can look up gem values for sockets as well.

 

VikingIrishman

I honestly wouldn't bother with putting in a value for sockets if you are using Rawr. Rawr will automatically enchant and gem your gear the best way, even factoring in whether or not the socket bonus is worth using the appropriate color of gem.

 

ElrickEnonimis

official pawn forums with many sample scales:

Official Pawn forums :: Index

 

Nisall

Which are all out-dated.

 

safetypro

Hi guys,
I'm following this thread with interest. My big problem is that I'm a leveling Paladin, not a level 80 so the assigned values are a little off for me.

Case in point:
Yesterday after installing Pawn and importing the suggested ret values, I came upon this quandry.

Battlemaster's Breastplate
Binds when picked up
Chest Plate
902 Armor
+21 Agility
+38 Strength
+22 Stamina
Durability 135 / 135

vs.

Light-Touched Breastplate
Binds when picked up
Chest Plate
873 Armor
+26 Strength
+25 Intellect
+25 Stamina
Red Socket
Yellow Socket
Blue Socket
Socket Bonus: +5 Spell Power
Durability 135 / 135
Requires Level 60
Equip: Restores 5 mana per 5 sec.

Clearly the Battlemaster's Breastplate is more Ret-Paladin oriented however the Pawn values were highly in favor of the Light Touched Breastplate because of the open sockets. I am aware that I can use the Bold Scarlet Ruby and possibly the Inscribed Monarch Topaz or even Sovereign Shadow Crystal however, I'm not going to pay a bundle for gems to socket armor that I will only be using a few levels.

Can anyone suggest a change that I can make with the value assignments to bring them more into line with leveling or are there alternatives gems that someone could suggest that will still make the Light-Touched armor more viable for the build and not break the bank?

Thanks in advance.

 

Dorvan

All you have to do is decide what quality of gem you're going to use, then value the socket at 1.7*(amount of strength of your chosen quality gem). For example, if you used uncommon TBC gems, sockets would be worth 10.2, if you used WotLK uncommon gems, they'd be worth 20.4.

 

• frmorrison

The TBC items with 2-3 sockets are really good, I'd always use the socketed item. Since Strength and Hit are what you should be focusing on and paying 50g for 16 str appears a bit much, you can get the cheaper Etched gems (8 str/8 hit) or cheaper 14 strength gems.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

safetypro

Guys, thanks so much for the prompt informative replies. I like the idea of recalculating the values using the multiplier of 1.7 for the strength on the gem I choose and I especially like the advice to consider Etched gems for the strength and hit rating.

I did some questing last night and came upon another situation that has me thinking that the formula is still a little off. Here's the 3 weapons that I was considering:

Fel Iron Greatsword
Binds when equipped
Two-Hand Sword
172 - 259 Damage
Speed 3.2
(67.3 damage per second)
Durability 85 / 85
Requires Level 63
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 30.
Equip: Increases attack power by 62.

Actual Character Screen Attributes:
Damage: 452 – 551
Power: 1008
Crit: 20.69

Pawn Ret PvE value: 482.7

Heart Fire Warhammer
Binds when picked up
Two-Hand Mace
121 - 182 Damage
Speed 2.2
(68.9 damage per second)
+19 Strength
+19 Intellect
+23 Stamina
Durability 100 / 100
Requires Level 60
Equip: Increases spell power by 12.
Equip: Restores 4 mana per 5 sec.

Actual Character Screen Attributes:
Damage: 309 - 379
Power: 984
Crit: 18.46

Pawn Ret PvE value: 455.8

Helboar Carving Blade
Binds when picked up
Two-Hand Sword
178 - 267 Damage
Speed 3.5
(63.6 damage per second)
+22 Agility
+23 Strength
+33 Stamina
Durability 85 / 85

Actual Character Screen Attributes:
Damage: 479 - 580
Power: 992
Crit: 19.86

Pawn Ret PvE value: 448.5

As you can see from above, The Fel Iron Greatsword is rated the highest followed by Heart Felt Warhammer and then Helboar Carving Blade. If you look at the damage attributes you see the Helboar is superior to the other two and in reality, the Heart Felt Warhammer should not even be considered for this build.

I believe the problem to be with using DPS as a weighted criteria. I know our ultimate goal is to have a high DPS but DPS relies on two factors; Damage and Speed. A fast low damage weapon can be better than a slow high damage weapon if you rely on DPS alone (as illustrated above with the Heart Felt Warhammer). The one thing I do know from reading these forums is that a ret paladin should use a slow high damage weapon. That being the case, the better criteria would be using upper and lower damage or average damage in the calculation. I'm not sure yet if the Pawn utility allows you to assign a value to any of the damage stats but I will play around with Pawn to see what I can affect and report back.

BTW: in case you are wondering, I chose the Helboar Carving Blade from the three weapons. At level 66 I will be switching to the Halaani Claymore and then at 68 The Oathkeeper.

Thanks for reading.

 

• frmorrison

My pawn values in-game have a value for weapon speed. I guess I forgot to list in in the OP. Just add it in yourself (under 2H speed, give it a value of around 6).

Certainly a 2.2 speed weapon could be better than a 3.5 speed weapon (assuming a huge dps difference), but Blizzard stopped itemizing very fast 2H weapons in TBC. In Wrath, the only time this would come into play in there is a 3.2 speed 212 dps Polearm in Ulduar-10 (if you had a 187 dps 3.6 weapon, the Polearm would be better).

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

manderson99

2h weapon speed 6? Interesting. Some of the other posters in this thread have recommended a base speed of 3.5 and a speed value of 570, which is what I have been using. Perhaps I should rethink that? Or maybe this requires some time on the training dummies . . .

edit: well I guess it doesn't make that much difference, since we'll all be changing our pawn values for 3.2 soon anyway.