Either I missed something some time ago, or it's new - instant FoL from AoW-procs appears to no longer reset the swing timer.

You wouldn't get 4 free attacks with a 2 handed weapon, you'd get 2 at most. Reckoning only procs 4 swings in the next 8 seconds.

Nice one. Maybe this will finally change as well:

Source: World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> [Bug] Sheathe of Light + Sacred Shield

Well if you look at the open talents I have a feeling we will be getting a version of Armor to AP like DK and Warriors have. With as many free points as we have and taking a straight up DPS nerf no marginal AP buff will make up for the current nerf, So there is obviously something else coming but I can't see it being something that just makes us all happy I just feel some mediocre fillers will show up.

Granted there are some nice specs you can make with these points open but at the same time I don't want to trade nerf for jack of all trades spec.

I just downloaded the Rawr Beta 2.20.b1 and finally Rawr rates the stats/gear in the way I have seem/felt since beginning of WotLK.
I know that new PTR releases and changes always are fun to look at or speculate around but personally I think we should cool it a bit and not draw to big conclusions until we have seen a bit more from the developers.

Right now it does look like we are getting toned down despite having been told that they wanted the same level of dps in Ulduar.

On a side note, anyone else that have Judged a add at instructor Rasuvious by mistake after he died?
Recoil for +140k ain't even funny. I really hope that some time in the future they will find a better way to balance our damage and mana regen then through recoil damage. We all know that in most cases the damage we take isn't a strain on healers but there are quite a few fights and Achievements where SotM/SoB is just a bit too dangerous.

One last question. Is it only me that think it's a bit weird that to compete you have to use macros and extra add-ons?
Moves that would be more or less impossible due to latency and server lag are now in the hands of every joe you there.
I can't help to think that now days you come up against encounters that would be more or less impossible without add-ons and macros and play classes and not players in PvP/Arena.

I don't know what macros and addons you are talking about, I only use a HoR-macro for bosses immune to taunt and quartz for the swingtimer (although it isn't really necessary anymore). Rest is cooldown management and rotation.

edit: That doesn't mean I'm unwilling to learn, share your thoughts! I just don't think that you need any addons at all to be good at your job.

I think that's it's pretty handy for Holy and Retribution PvP, whilst still being dispellable as a counter. With Divine Protection and Divine Shield triggering forbearance and hence being for all intents and purposes mutually exclusive this appears to provide these two specs some additional breathing space to bridge the gap between cooldowns. In fact, the new version of Blessed Hands allows Holy to reduce the cooldown of HoSalv to 96 seconds, which is very nice for a mini-shieldwall. Giving up a Glyph slot for this in PvP seems worthwhile.

PvE viability for the Glyph probably centres around gimmick fights for Protection, e.g. Sarth 3D or mobs which have enrage phases and are tauntable. In terms of Retribution for PvE this probably won't see the light of day.

I know reckoning is almost certainly out, but I feel the need to correct this statement. You will often get THREE attacks out of reckoning with a 3.x speed weapon. Let's take 3.5 speed for example. The first charge might be used at 0.0 seconds of having the buff, at which point charge 2 will be used at 3.5s and charge 3 at 7s.

Yea those two (white/blue) look somewhat better, though the coloring of the white one reminds me of some priest set (can't put my finger on it, might be prophecy).

Red one doesn't look half bad considering you'll hide most of the pants with a tabard. It would fit as the PvP set.

That leaves clown colored one. I really hope that's not the 25 man or high end arena one *fingers crossed*



If it's a major I think it'll be pretty useless under almost all circumstances, self-only 20% damage reduction for 10 seconds every 2 minutes (untalented) is not worth giving up any major glyphs in any spec (and not for prot for obvious reasons). There could be an in for PvP holy (HS, Seal and that) but it's still very meh.

If it's a minor it's going to be a standard issue glyph to use for PvP (and always pretty much).

I agree that the devs should consider the vengeance 5 stack again, although there are some points you should consider:
a) If they make it 5 stack again I think they will be maybe "forced" to change the warrior and death knight ones too, just for consistency purposes. On the other hand according to the first batch of paladin changes, blizzard doesn't seem to be very consistent on our talent/mechanics so we are going to have to wait and see.

b) Another point that you should think about and the devs need to consider is that our damage with a 5 vengeance stack may be a little more than intended, i.e. roughly 300-500 DPS more on patchwerk kind of fights and a lot more on gimmick fights like thaddius. And I'm not even taking into consideration (i.e. my pathetic napkin math :p) the new exorcism-always-crits-on-undead plus the exorcism 20% more dmg glyph.

On another note, the tier 1 prot missing talent could very well be a Armored to the Teeth copy. I don't think it will hurt the homogenisation that much, since it will make plate users mostly interested in plate items. And it should be about time that Seals of the Pure affects SoB and JoB.

By the way am I the only one that hopes the coloured t8, i.e. the original concept is very good looking? What's wrong with people and the purple colour? I see people (not here) crying about the "ridiculous" colour set, and that purple is not a proper colour for a paladin set.
I think all of them look good except for the white one. Reminds me a lot of the t8 priest set and t5. We only just need a kilt instead of pants. Like the concept art looks.

BTW: Perhaps I'm blind, but I haven't seen a "PM" button on these boards, so forgive me for this: Exemplar (and ofc bellator): I think I found a bug in your spreadsheet. Whenever I try to input Greatring of Collision as an item on my gear setup, and press "show gems/enchants" a gem slot doesn't appear there. And in fact that happens for all the rings with gem slots. I did check the "gear" tab where all the items are displayed and especially the "MyRing" part, and it is indeed displaying the gem slots there, along with gem colour and socket bonus, but it doesn't work on the main page of the spreadsheet. I think the mistake is on the "G1, G2, G3, G4" column of the rings specifically. On every other item there is an if statement as a function but not on rings. That's one issue. Also another thing that I noticed it is when I select Favor of the Dragon Queen and put a Bold Dragon's Eye on the gem slot, I don't get the gem bonus. It reports "FAILED" in the gem bonus part. I haven't had time to look at this so no input here.
Anyway, Thank you for the maintaining this perfect spreadsheet, and thank you for the excellent update with the rotations, I'm playing with it a lot at the moment. And of course a million kudos to Bellator for making this in the first place.

p.s perhaps it's high time for a separate bellator's spreadsheet thread?

The only big problem I have with our new tier set, regardless of color, is all the cloth that's covering the plate parts.
Is it too much asked of blizzard to just give us a tin can?

Anyway, like I said before : With the amount of talent points that are "freed", I really hope that the new "Purifying Power" will drop down to tier2 of the holy tree.
It would benefit our dps quite a bit and would increase interactivity even more.

Only immediate problem that I see with it becomming a tier2 talent, is that Exorcism is learned at lvl 20 and not lvl 15.