That is some very interesting stuff by vulajin; I think I'll add that to the op now, but am not sure what section it belongs in.

For the 4pc I thought about how to pump out some math, though it is not entirely accurate (it is hard to measure it's value). It assumes you have 2/2 imp judgements like you should if specced properly, and also assumes perfect conditions (sub-50 ping, no judgement failures ect). Say a fight lasts 4 minutes, which seems to be the average t7 level boss - over that time without the 4pc, you would have 30 judgements. With 4pc, you would have 34 judgements. My average JoB when raid buffed hits normally for ~4600, and crits for ~9200; my average critrate with judgements is ~70% raid buffed (25% base crit + 35% crit from gear + 3% HotC + 5% LotP/warrior version + raidbuffs such as kings and motw - 4.8). Holy crap that got messy let me clean it up...

WITH 4pc bonus, raid buffed -
Fight lasts 4 minutes (240 seconds):
- 34 judgements (as opposed to 30 without 4pc)
- 2638 extra mana from JotW
(2638 / 240) x 5 = 55, so 55 mp5
- 7800 average judgement damage
70% assumed critrate
4600 - 9200 damage range on judgements
- 31200 more damage from judgements
- 31200 / 240 = 130

So unless someone can disprove my math (and hopefully supplement their own), 2pc T7 is a straight 1% damage increase, and 4pc T7 is worth ~130 dps and 55 mp5. If I don't see any math to prove otherwise by tomorrow I'll add it to the OP.

The place where it gets tricky is when you start considering that the reduced cooldown on Judgement would mean some abilities would get delayed more than without the reduction in cooldown.

As an example, prior with an 8 second cooldown on Judgement, you might have a Crusader Strike come up at the 7 second mark, used it, and then used Judgement when the GCD was up. Now however, you would delay that CS to the 8.5 second mark, after the GCD of Judgement.

Averaged out over an entire fight, you would expect to see some material reduction in the number of casts for non-Judgement abilities due to the new cooldown conflicts it would create. This is why it's so hard to quantify the 4-piece T7 bonus in anything approaching a rigorous sense. We pretty much just have to crudely approximate.

Add Vulajin's testing proving a 4.8% crit depression could be added in a new section called Interesting Observations. You could add 3% ghost hit as well.


The issue with giving a value for Judgement at 7 seconds is having more GCD interruptions that you may not have had before. Another thing is non-set items (if including Leather) are better than the set items is true for T7 except for the Shoulders. This item difference is likely close to or more than 130 dps.

The additional 55mp5 doesn't seem like it is worth much, assuming Judgements don't bug.


I would say 4 Piece T7 is worth 3% dps increase with the note that non-Set items will prove equal or better.

Actually creating more clashing in an FCFS rotation by decreasing the CD on the most damaging ability in that rotation will increase our dps MORE than the 3% or so we have theoretically laid out.

8s CD Judgement
0s - Judge
1.5s - CS
3s - DS
7.5s - CS
9s - Judge
13s - DS
14.5s - CS
17s - Judge

7s CD Judgement
0s - Judge
1.5s - CS
3s - DS
7s - Judge
8.5s - CS
13s - DS
14s - Judge
15.5s - CS

Just in the initial 20s burst, you can see how much time is saved with a 7 second Judgement, which doesn't speak as much to Patchwerk dps, as it does to Malygos dps, where you're constantly working that starting rotation.

The only thing that resets swing timer that I know of is a AoW insta FoL. Or anything with a cast time.

None of our dps abilities reset the swing timer at this point, the one thing you may be weary of is using your instant cast flash of lights which do still reset the timer.

Updated the op with tier sets and and observation section. Regarding the observation section, if anyone has time to kill would you please, PLEASE go test exactly how much hit we require for judgements? My own mini-test of ~100 judgements showed that I never missed one with 9%, so we can safely say they are not spells; I have not personally tried 8% yet. Feel free to try it with 5% hit as well although we pretty much already know the outcome of that. Mostly what I'm looking for is an 8% vs 9% test :>

Oh ok, make our testing even more confusing, THANKS GEVLIN ;o

So then, would anyone be willing to test judgements on the heroic target dummy, with 5%, 6%, 7%, and 8% hit? Please be sure to post recount shots or combat parses to back it up; anecdotal evidence is good and all but we need solid evidence.

Gevlin - did you have Precision before 3.0? I.e. are you getting the ghost hit?

This weekend I did 1000 melee on the boss dummy and some random number of judgements during this time. I got 8% miss on melee and 9ish on Judgement - however it was a very small sample size so large deviation possible. I finished Naxx 10 the other day (6 bosses) and no missed judgements at 7.6% (including Draenei aura). I'd suspect we're across the board 8% (or 5% if you had precision). But this is anecdotal, I too would like to see a large sampel size with definitive information.

From my Naxx-25 parse a week ago with 5.7% hit, I had about a 0.2% miss on my attacks with a slightly higher miss rate on Judgement. I had precision. Wow Web Stats

I think that precision is not stacking with the 8% miss rate, so there is a 6% hit cap, not 5%. Judgement maybe higher.

Since Hammer of Wrath doesn't use a Weapon (just like Shield of Righteousness), HoW/SotR are unaffected by 3% ghost hit. Precision only affects attacks made with a weapon.

My WWS parse linked above confirms this non-ghost hit affect, with a 3.4% miss rate (I had 5.6% hit). The cap for HoW is 8%, just I didn't have enough attacks to get the correct 2.4% miss rate.