greatrichie

Resists are completely independent of hit rating I believe, and there's really no way to get rid of it, outside of spell pen... which... well... we won't go there.

 

Depala

I dont think even Spellpen could help against the partial resists since Bosses do not have Resistance against holy in Wotlk, our Partial resists are coming from the difference in Level which we can not change, so Spellpen is completly useless.

 

Tyrova

I am continually getting a bug (mainly in arenas is where i notice it) where i will judge the target and within a fraction of a second get cced, and the judgement will cause no damage but go on cooldown. It often causes kickback (I'm only noticing this with martyr.) Anybody else encounter this issue?

 

Alleyra

It's not very common but it does occur. It happens with every Seal. It's been discussed in the past in this thread and the previous -- I'm not sure if Blizzard has acknowledged it or made any mention of fixing the issue. It seems to be more prevalent when Fear is involved, as opposed to Polymorph, etc.

Ghostcrawler: If there is a spec we want to avoid over-buffing so that we don't have to nerf them, it's Ret.

 

Tyrova

Also, i'm not sure if i'm hallucinating or simply incredibly lucky, but does SoB kickback break polymorph etc just like shadow word death?
I'd look for the answer in the 140 page thread, but.. 140 page thread.

 

• promdates

If you time it right, yes. It works the same as Shadow Word Death does, in that aspect.

"On a scale of one to mein kampf, how many racists does it take to make a guild look terrible?"

[03:28] L_J: it's "olololo hero class"

[01:09:39] <DeeNogger> Any of the resident grammer nazis on right now?

 

Blackthought

In preparing my gear for 3.1, after using RAWR and Exemplar's new spreadsheet, it seems that some leather wil be BiS for us. Namely, I believe that Leggings of the Honored, Chestguard of the Recluse and the Frosted Adroit gloves will be 3 such pieces. Are others finding the same results or am I doing something wrong?

 

flexbutt

I believe all 3 of those pieces have always been BiS, even now. People were simply advised against using them because 4piece was superior. I imagine below hit/expertise caps they will be back at the top.

 

Tyrova

When you say it's not very common, i can reliably get it to proc every single time if i judge at the same time a warlock finishes a fear cast, for instance (or a scatter shot if it's timed properly, hard to do with no cast bar) I also have noticed and can replicated this with polymorph and any other CC with a cast time(where i can time it), if you judge the second the cast finishes, judge always goes on cd and it never does any damage.

 

Sessa

It seems to happen because the damage from Judgement is delayed slightly. However, Judgement is not the only spell that has this problem. If you lose control of your character as you cast a certain spell with delay on the damage, then it fails and the GCD & cooldown is used still. I always think that if they made the damage absolutely instant that it would prevent the problem, or at least make it a rarer occurrence. But I am no expert on this situation, I just have to live with it, but it is very frustrating dealing with this in arena when your biggest nuke & mana regen go to waste.

 

Kinmaul

I think the problem started with patch 3.0 (when they changed Judgement to JoW/JoJ/JoL). I remember reading that when you Judge the debuff gets put on your target (JoW/JoJ/JoL) and the application/refresh of that debuff causes you to cast your damaging Judgement. If you get CC'd in the middle of this process Judgement does no damage because you cannot act while CC'd obviously. This is why Recount records Judgements that hit as the damaging Judgement and the ones that miss as the debuff Judgement. It's also the reason that JoJ used to "double Judge" back in the Wrath beta. They forgot to remove the damage on the debuff Judgement so it was effectively procing twice. This mechanic was responsible for the 'failed judgements' we were getting at the start of Wrath as well.

With latency it is pretty easy to see how this scenario could happen, and depending on your connection it wouldn't be too hard to recreate. Another thing I've had happen to me is that I've Judged my target, which should kill them, but they kill me and due to the delay my Judgement does no damage. This again would fit the model of the delay mechanic perfectly. However I don't know of another spell/ability that works like this.

 

aylen86

There was a lot of talking about a 3.1 gear list to start well into Ulduar. This compilation should account for items from current content, our 2-roll special attack system and the patch 3.1 class mechanic changes.

This is what I discovered so far by using RAWR v2.2.0b61:

IMPORTANT NOTE: Only accurate with Blacksmithing and one of the 64 AP professions (Enchanting, Leatherworking,...).
Using Jewelcrafting instead of Enchanting should give you slightly more AP and Crit.

Mobtype: Other (to represent Ulduar conditions)



Bufflist:




Alliance

BiS 2pc T7.5 (only plate) - with heroic presence
item name - item enchant - item gemming
[Obsidian Greathelm] - Arcanum of Torment - Relentless Earthsiege Diamond / Enchanted Tear
[Favor of the Dragon Queen] - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Valorous Redemption Shoulderplates] - Greater Inscription of the Axe - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Drape of the Deadly Foe] - Major Agility
[Undiminished Battleplate] - Powerful Stats
[Bracers of Unrelenting Attack] - Greater Assault - 2x Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Zeliek's Gauntlets] - Crusher - 2x Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Girdle of Razuvious] - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Valorous Redemption Legplates] - Icescale Leg Armor - 2x Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Melancholy Sabatons] - Icewalker
[Surge Needle Ring] - Assault
[Ruthlessness] - Assault
[Darkmoon Card: Greatness]
[Fury of the Five Flights] / [Mirror of Truth]
[Betrayer of Humanity] / Berserking
[Deadly Gladiator's Libram of Fortitude]

Fully raidbuffed stats (w/o Amplify Magic and Focus Magic):
6.760 AP
41.92% Crit Chance
0.00% Miss Chance (8.11% hit / 233 rating)
0.00% Dodge Chance (27 Expertise / 223 rating)
35.31% Melee Haste (239 haste rating)
--
5.805 Total DPS


BiS 2pc T7.5 (including leather)
[Obsidian Greathelm] - Arcanum of Torment - Relentless Earthsiege Diamond / Enchanted Tear
[Favor of the Dragon Queen] - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Valorous Redemption Shoulderplates] - Greater Inscription of the Axe - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Drape of the Deadly Foe] - Major Agility

Changes:
[Chestguard of the Recluse] - Powerful Stats - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Thrusting Bands] - Greater Assault - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Frosted Adroit Handguards] - Crusher - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Girdle of Chivalry] - 2x Bold Scarlet Ruby

[Valorous Redemption Legplates] - Icescale Leg Armor - 2x Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Melancholy Sabatons] - Icewalker
[Surge Needle Ring] - Assault
[Ruthlessness] - Assault
[Darkmoon Card: Greatness]
[Fury of the Five Flights] / [Mirror of Truth]
[Betrayer of Humanity] / Berserking
[Deadly Gladiator's Libram of Fortitude]

Fully raidbuffed stats (w/o Amplify Magic and Focus Magic):
6.672 AP
44.50% Crit Chance
0.08% Miss Chance (7.92% hit / 227 rating)
0.03% Dodge Chance (26 Expertise / 212 rating) <- most likely roundoff error
35.16% Melee Haste (236 haste rating) // +63 Armor Penetration Rating (Chest)
--
5.898 Total DPS

• *.xml-File: Aiya_Leather.xml Download File on FileFront

Conclusion: It's safe to say that with the weighting changes towards seal damage it's worth breaking the 4pc set bonus. Legplates and shoulders are the strong parts so we should keep them. For those who are not bound to special loot rules: When comparing BiS plate to leather gear, you are swaping 90 AP and a minuscule amount of haste and hit for 2.5% crit chance and 63 armorpen. All you need are two ilvl 226 leather pieces from Malygos (the higher itemlevel is most likely making the deal) and Noth's wrists (perfectly fitting). I would not suggest to use [Leggings of the Honored], they have far to much hit.



Horde

BiS 2pc T7.5 (only plate) - w/o heroic presence
[Obsidian Greathelm] - Arcanum of Torment - Relentless Earthsiege Diamond / Enchanted Tear
[Favor of the Dragon Queen] - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Valorous Redemption Shoulderplates] - Greater Inscription of the Axe - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Drape of the Deadly Foe] - Major Agility
[Undiminished Battleplate] - Powerful Stats

Changes:
[Wristbands of the Sentinel Huntress] - Greater Assault - 1x Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Crude Discolored Battlegrips] - Crusher - 1x Bold Scarlet Ruby

[Girdle of Razuvious] - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Valorous Redemption Legplates] - Icescale Leg Armor - 2x Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Melancholy Sabatons] - Icewalker
[Surge Needle Ring] - Assault
[Ruthlessness] - Assault
[Darkmoon Card: Greatness]
[Fury of the Five Flights] / [Mirror of Truth]
[Betrayer of Humanity] / Berserking
[Deadly Gladiator's Libram of Fortitude]

Fully raidbuffed stats (w/o Amplify Magic and Focus Magic):
6.710 AP
43.18% Crit Chance
0.04% Miss Chance (7.96% hit / 261 rating)
0.00% Dodge Chance (26 Expertise / 212 rating) <- most likely roundoff error
32.03% Melee Haste (172 haste rating)
--
5.774 Total DPS


BiS 2pc T7.5 (including leather)
[Obsidian Greathelm] - Arcanum of Torment - Relentless Earthsiege Diamond / Enchanted Tear
[Favor of the Dragon Queen] - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Valorous Redemption Shoulderplates] - Greater Inscription of the Axe - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Drape of the Deadly Foe] - Major Agility
[Chestguard of the Recluse] - Powerful Stats - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Thrusting Bands] - Greater Assault - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Frosted Adroit Handguards] - Crusher - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Girdle of Chivalry] - 2x Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Valorous Redemption Legplates] - Icescale Leg Armor - 2x Bold Scarlet Ruby

Changes:
[Dawnwalkers] - Greater Assault

[Surge Needle Ring] - Assault
[Ruthlessness] - Assault
[Darkmoon Card: Greatness]
[Fury of the Five Flights] / [Mirror of Truth]
[Betrayer of Humanity] / Berserking
[Deadly Gladiator's Libram of Fortitude]

Fully raidbuffed stats (w/o Amplify Magic and Focus Magic):
6.620 AP
44.36% Crit Chance
0.00% Miss Chance (8.08% hit / 265 rating)
0.03% Dodge Chance (26 Expertise / 212 rating) <- most likely roundoff error
35.16% Melee Haste (236 haste rating) // +63 Armor Penetration Rating (Chest)
--
5.850 Total DPS

This is only one possible 8.580 DPS combo, I found another one with [Bracers of Unrelenting Attack], [Dawnwalkers] with Icewalker and the new expertise ring Inscribed Ring of the Kirin Tor (so it's not right available).


Feel free to correct me concerning better gear setups or errors.

//Edit: Added bufflist and mob type screenshots to keep conditions equal. RAWR example *.xml added as well.

 

Akimara

Are you sure that using 4p 7,5 isn't viable anymore with 3.1?

 

greatrichie

It's viable.... but a DPS loss over BiS pieces. 4pc T7 lost alot of it's charm when judgements get nerfed. The best thing 4pc T7 has now over BiS pieces is better mana regen, which honestly should be the last of our worries atm.

Since we're on the topic here's my 3.1 starter set. Slightly different, but basically the same as the Leather version noted above. Richie3.1starter.xml Download File on FileFront

 

jgRnt

One thing I am wondering about the 4pc set bonus from valorous is; when is it time to break the bonus?
I understand that new pieces for best in slot is ofc to prefer but if the very first piece of loot you get a chance to lay your hands on is a new chest piece or a pair of gloves, etc, should the piece be passed to someone else in line or should the paladin break the 4pc and use the new piece right away? Understandably we need to break the set eventually but it might mean that we lose dps up until the point where we get enough new pieces to make up for the loss and eventually surpass it.

So, is the beginning of ulduar the time to look greedy and pick up pieces but not use them right away?

 

greatrichie

The question of when exactly to break the 4 piece would best be solved by going to a spreadsheet and putting in pieces, however 4 pc will probably be broken rather fast. It's just not worth alot in 3.1.

 

aylen86

Using your gear setup under my conditions (no crusade, enhanced windfury totems, same professions), it gives me a 5.754 DPS. There's also another discrepancy concerning your talent spec (1 point in divinity and only 4/5 divine strength), so I guess you were using an old rawr build. Please upgrade Rawr to v2.2.0b6 and upgrade your rawr.retribution.dll (link).

Comparing different gear setups from different clients, there's a lot that can differ.

 

greatrichie

Ah, Forgot to do the talents lol. It's 2.2.06b tho with the .dll patched in.

Here's the updated one with better talents. I did change out Bladed Steelboots for Dawnwalkers however.
Richie3.1starter.xml Download File on FileFront

Edit: Why don't you take crusade?
Also I have it set to Bandits Insignia, Mainly because I never plan on getting FotFF, so switching trinkets would probably give a better view, since BI isn't even modeled in Rawr (from the Rawr Thread the proc is worth like 52 dps, but it's not in Rawr, so it's hard to compare two sets when one has a broken trinket.)

 

aylen86

No, you misunderstood. I take it. Crusade will simply have no impact on your DPS, when you fight against (most, if not all) Ulduar mobs, e.g. Giants and Titans. Therefore I've selected "Mob Type: Other" and not "Mob Type: Undead".

When using Bandit's Insignia instead of FotFF, your starter gear is still 55 DPS behind (5754 to 5809 DPS).

 

greatrichie

Right. You still get the 3% dmg though. You just made it sound like you didn't even spec into it, which was what the confusion was about.

Edit: Here's what I don't get. When I plug mine in with the usual buffs (no imp WF or Focus magic or Amp magic), and boss debuffs, I get 5932 with my gearset with FotFF, then when I switch the bracers, boots, and belt to yours(because thats the only difference) I get 5892. Thats with it set to "other"

As I said before it's 2.2.06b, with Endo's .dll file, so it should be the same client.

To Stabby, yeah thats what I was saying, it was just confusing because it sounded like they didnt' spec into crusade at all.

 

• promdates

Setting it to Undead gives you 6% instead of 3%. Setting it to Other should only give you 3%.

"On a scale of one to mein kampf, how many racists does it take to make a guild look terrible?"

[03:28] L_J: it's "olololo hero class"

[01:09:39] <DeeNogger> Any of the resident grammer nazis on right now?

 

• frmorrison

Well, if you don't mind 100 dps loss, then it is viable. For some people, that extra 100 is a lot, but others not so much.

4 piece should be broken ASAP as soon as you get a piece of Ulduar plate though, there is little reason to keep it.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Chromy

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> [BUG] Bladestorm being slowed
May help explain this a bit. Not the exact same thing, but this falls under the same catagory.

 

Sideshow

so sidetracking a bit here

But in an example 4-5 minute fight, I've always popped AW at the start, and then towards the end (waiting till 20% unless for some reason I think I can get a 3rd time in)... my guild usually does heroism towards the end, but way earlier than 20% (usually like 40-30%)

I've always thought it would be better to get two AWs that don't stack with heroism, vs just one AW that does stack with heroism - was I wrong from the beginning?

And with the buff to haste.. is it now always better to stack AW/heroism, or is it much better to get two AWs in a fight regardless of any heroism timings?

 

greatrichie

Well... Heroism should usually be called ~20% (depending on the raid leader). Most fights allow the use of 2 AW, one of which more often than not is during a Heroism, but yes you get more out of a AW during heroism. If the fight length only allows one then wait for heroism.

It's mainly just knowing how long the fight should last.

Edit:Nevermind, apparently it's better to blow Heroism at the start of a fight. I'll have to pass this to my raid leaders