You need a blue somewhere for the meta. Enchanted Tear is an excellent choice. Putting said "blue" gem in the shoulders for the Str bonus is definitely better than the hit bonus. 4 Str is vastly better than 6 hit.

Even the spreadsheet I update simply assumes meta requirements are met and auto-sockets everything with str gems for comparison purposes - the logic gets too complex otherwise.

If you aren't a JC, then yeah the tear should be used over a purple color gem (if it is available to you and a piece you won't replace for a while, such as the shoulders..). Rawr and even redcape's calculator are not properly taking into account things like hitcap or meta requirements; exemplar's/bellator's spreadsheet is actually surprisingly accurate for the moment.

For the boots, rather than gemming them for hit it would be wiser to save 40 valor badges for [Bladed Steelboots]... for my own endgame set I plan on using 4pc 7.5 with the os25+2 helmet, so gloves are required for the set bonus (rather than an offset item). If you don't plan on using 4pc then sure, use the gloves and gem STR all the way, but from the looks of things and anecdotal evidence 4pc is the way to go.

As I understand it, the ppm of the enchant takes your weapon speed into account and then translates this into a % proc chance. Here is how it was described to me.

So with that conclusion drawn, the ability to chain a proc is certainly within reason. I'll test this out when I get home. With a Death's Bite, which I believe to be a 3.4, it would be a 6.8% chance to proc given a 1.2ppm.

Anyone know exactly what this bug fix means yet? Just showed up in the new patch notes.

I used to participate in all the mechanics discussions over in the rogue threads (when I played a rogue), and if we were correct then there's a bit of a flaw in your reasoning about procs per minute. PPM mechanics are built such that if a player were using only unhasted white attacks, the proc % per swing is set based on weapon speed such that the given PPM would occur on average. For example, a 1.2 PPM ability would have a 3.0% chance per swing to proc using a 1.5 speed weapon, but a 7.4% chance to proc with a 3.7 speed weapon. That proc chance is applied per attack made with the weapon, even on hasted swings and on special attacks. The end result is that the actually observed uptime will be much higher than the theoretical uptime you have above.

For instance, let's look at a 3.7 speed weapon at 1.2 PPM (ie 7.4% proc chance). Let's assume get 20% haste from Windfury Totem, plus any other haste you have on gear, for about 25% total haste. And let's just say that you use CS roughly 9 times and DS roughly 5 times every minute: 14 special attacks. Your total attacks per minute are therefore 60/3.7*1.25 + 14 ~= 34, compared to 16 attacks/minute if you were just unhasted white swinging. Respective calculations for theoretical maximum uptime:

Unhasted white swings
1.2 * 15 / 60 ~= 30%
or
0.074 * 16 * 15 / 60 ~= 30% (reduced by overlapping procs)

Actual swings
0.074 * 34 * 15 / 60 ~= 63% (reduced by overlapping procs)

I don't specifically recall the math used in the rogue sheets to account for overlapping procs, but it is there somehow. Proc overlap actually significantly reduces total uptime, since the ability will often proc inside itself.

Conclusion: due to how proc mechanics work, Berserking could very well be 1.2 PPM and have a ~35% uptime for paladins.

EDIT: And actually, judgement should theoretically proc it, as judgement is treated as a specialized melee attack. But it would be worth testing before assuming that, to be sure.

EDIT #2: Crap, beaten to the explanation by Flex.

The numbers seem closer if I do NOT include judgements. I took 2 parses (one from Patchwerk10 and one from Patchwerk25) and added all swings, crusader strikes and divine storms.

In Patchwerk10, I procced Berserking 8 times on 118 swings, which came out to 6.78% on a 3.4 speed weapon.

This might be bad luck, but in Patchwerk25, I procced Berserking 7 times on 132 swings, which came out to 5.3% on the same weapon. This parse was linked in my earlier post.

Seal of Command, back to training dummy. Judgement number 21 procced Berserk (from enchant: Berserking). So there we have it.


Prismatic indeed count as all gem colours at once. So one prismatic would be 1 red, 1 blue, 1 yellow - therefore meet Meta requirements all by itself. This is primarily why the Tear is best for non-JCer.

Okay, I have some numbers.

First off, as posted above me, Judgements do proc Berserking. I tested with Seal of Blood, and got my first proc on Judgement 42.

For these first two parses, my weapon speed is 3.03 (290 haste)

Here is the first parse on the heroic dummy for 24'53'': Berserking Test 1 (Ignore the name of the wws, I messed up)

I took Judgement hits and crits, added them up and divided by 2 (assuming half of the hits are recoil) and got:
40 procs/645 total swings = 6.2%

This parse is 10 minutes of only using white swings: Berserking Test 2

13 procs/187 swings = 6.95%

For this next parse, my weapon speed is 3.40 (0 haste, no ret aura)

Here is a 13 minute parse: Berserking Test 3

19 procs/430 swings = 4.4% (weird, I'll try it one more time)

Here is my last parse for 10'44: Berserking Test 4

22 procs/365 swings = 6.02%

I'm not sure if haste affects the proc rate, but these numbers seem pretty close to between 1.0-1.4ppm (which is the range that many rogues were finding).

Someone clarify, cause that doesn't sound right.

Prismatic gems count as a red, blue, and yellow gem at ONCE? Or it just counts as whatever type of gem of the socket color you put it in? Cause the reply above seems to imply the former.

1 prismatic gem counts as

1 red AND
1 yellow AND
1 blue

for meta requirements.

No more ghost hit: World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Hotfix: Talent Issue

I think it means Crusade (And Glyph of Sense Undead, maybe) wasn't affecting Judgements.

The RED requires TWO of each color, if you look closely.

That being said, an Enchanted Tear would indeed count as one of each color all at the same time. You could enable your RED with just three gems if you wanted to: An Enchanted Tear, a purple gem and a yellow gem.

Ah, you caught my misprint there, I meant the [Relentless Earthsiege Diamond].

And thank you everyone for clarifying the prismatic to meta requirement issue.

Source: World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Hotfix: Talent Issue

Interesting, first time a blue mentioned the ghosthitbug. I wonder whether this hotfix is live and s.o. noticed a difference.

That quote itself mentions that the change is a hotfix, and thus should be in effect right now. Arikah, 4 posts up, has already seen a miss with 7% hit, which corroborates the effect.

A few questions I would really appreciate the answer too. I understand the Paladin mechanics very well, however I have no idea how to do the hard math on the next few questions.

[1] 1 Hand and Shield

PvP: Okay, assume I usually only use a 1 Hander and Shield when I'm trying to kill someone through BoP. Right now that would be Judge, ShoR2, ShoR1. Obviously after the patch this would change, but in this case, is it worth it to Judge with Betrayer before swapping to a one hander OR Judging with Libram of Obstruction and then using SHoR? How about after the patch?

Note: I have ~5k AP in 5s, and ~37% crit in pvp gear. No proc or use trinkets that effect holy damage, however I usually have Ebon Plague.

Situation 1: Judgement with Betrayer (110 ap), ShoR2 + SHoR1 with Skull of Ruin (18 Block Value) and Slayer of The Lifeless (20 STR)
Situation 2: Judgement and ShoR2 / ShoR 1 with Slayer / Skull / Libram of Obstruction

After Patch: The same with only 1 rank of ShoR.

With this is mind,
- What is the highest DPS 1 Hand and Shield? Assuming only one rank of ShoR.
- Is Judgement (of the Martyr) damage based off of Weapon Damage or DPS? (Should I not be using Slayer of the Lifeless?)
- Is 20 STR more DPS than 65 ap for a one hander? (2 cases here: with just Judge and ShoR, and with all attacks considered.)
- Is Libram of Obstruction the best Libram for 1 Hand + Shield? Is so, is this true after the patch?

[2] Libram

Is the Deadly Gladiator's Libram really better than Radiance? I know it"s slightly better in PvE, but I'm assuming it"s not better for Arena. How much DPS time on each target is required before the Deadly libram overtakes Radiance? In other words, how many attacks do I have to land with 120 ap extra in order to make up for 115 damage?

I can buy the libram anytime, since I have ~2.x k arena points saved. I'm not sure what to buy yet since my PvP gear set is my ideal, with only hateful becoming deadly, and the minor cloak upgrade from Kel. I don't really care about PvE upgrades at the moment.

[3] Is Judgement a ranged or melee attack?

I've read both here, with Judgement being a melee attack with an aura that negates parries and dodges, and with Judgement being treated as ranged.

The evidence for Judgement being ranged would be Judgement vs a Paladin with Divine Purpose and missing.
The evidence for Judgement being melee seems to be the mobs in Karazhan that counter based on range / melee / spell attacks.

The question here is how much hit do I need in PvP to not miss Judgemnets agaisnt Paladins and Mages? 9 / 10?

Thanks for your time.

With this hot fix in place I'll be interested to see how paladin numbers come out. People are either going to regem to get back to the hit cap and lose some strength gems, or they will miss more on bosses. Either way, dps is going down. I wonder if ret dps was balanced around having ghost hit or not. This also makes pvp gearing a bit more difficult.

Uhm, even if we lose hit, we shouldn't gem for it. Shame on OP, STR is still the way to gem even if not hitcapped, this has been proven time and again, no? I'm glad I kept some hititems lying around

Yes and no. You're definitely correct in saying that minor delays (latency or human error) often cause cs and judge to come out of cooldown at the same time. However, I'd like to shy aware from the statement "I give priority" to cs. You're also correct that judgement and cs will always clash, continuously pushing cs back, if judge is prioritized first. If cs is cast first there are very few clashes in the future. In a perfect world, cs should always cool down before judge, so it isn't being prioritised, you're simply compensating for latency by casting it first. I made a post a few pages back (to a very lackluster response, I might add), which clearly illustrates that delaying any ability for even 0.5 seconds in order to cast a higher priority ability results in a net dps loss. Of course, if mana is an issue it is often worth delaying abilities to judge. You'll see how many casts of ds, consecrate, and cs are lost in a fight if you ever do delay casts in order to judge. Here are the cycles and analysis of casts in a 6 min. fight again:

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Also, the cycles are based on consecration being the lowest priority cast, simply because I imagined mana constraints to be greater than they really are. As far as I understand, consecrate should actually be our second highest priority cast, after judge? Nevertheless, the cycles still demonstrate that any delaying of casts for higher priority abilities will result in a net dps loss.

Final addendum to my post about Berserking. I decided to take my Cat's Edge out of the bank to confirm that ppm based enchants indeed can chain proc, and here is what I got.

Wow Web Stats

I ran a white hit test on the dummy in IF and got my 1st misses in a long time (231 hit).