If you time it right, yes. It works the same as Shadow Word Death does, in that aspect.

I believe all 3 of those pieces have always been BiS, even now. People were simply advised against using them because 4piece was superior. I imagine below hit/expertise caps they will be back at the top.

When you say it's not very common, i can reliably get it to proc every single time if i judge at the same time a warlock finishes a fear cast, for instance (or a scatter shot if it's timed properly, hard to do with no cast bar) I also have noticed and can replicated this with polymorph and any other CC with a cast time(where i can time it), if you judge the second the cast finishes, judge always goes on cd and it never does any damage.

It seems to happen because the damage from Judgement is delayed slightly. However, Judgement is not the only spell that has this problem. If you lose control of your character as you cast a certain spell with delay on the damage, then it fails and the GCD & cooldown is used still. I always think that if they made the damage absolutely instant that it would prevent the problem, or at least make it a rarer occurrence. But I am no expert on this situation, I just have to live with it, but it is very frustrating dealing with this in arena when your biggest nuke & mana regen go to waste.

There was a lot of talking about a 3.1 gear list to start well into Ulduar. This compilation should account for items from current content, our 2-roll special attack system and the patch 3.1 class mechanic changes.

This is what I discovered so far by using RAWR v2.2.0b61:

IMPORTANT NOTE: Only accurate with Blacksmithing and one of the 64 AP professions (Enchanting, Leatherworking,...).
Using Jewelcrafting instead of Enchanting should give you slightly more AP and Crit.

Mobtype: Other (to represent Ulduar conditions)



Bufflist:




Alliance

BiS 2pc T7.5 (only plate) - with heroic presence
item name - item enchant - item gemming
[Obsidian Greathelm] - Arcanum of Torment - Relentless Earthsiege Diamond / Enchanted Tear
[Favor of the Dragon Queen] - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Valorous Redemption Shoulderplates] - Greater Inscription of the Axe - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Drape of the Deadly Foe] - Major Agility
[Undiminished Battleplate] - Powerful Stats
[Bracers of Unrelenting Attack] - Greater Assault - 2x Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Zeliek's Gauntlets] - Crusher - 2x Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Girdle of Razuvious] - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Valorous Redemption Legplates] - Icescale Leg Armor - 2x Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Melancholy Sabatons] - Icewalker
[Surge Needle Ring] - Assault
[Ruthlessness] - Assault
[Darkmoon Card: Greatness]
[Fury of the Five Flights] / [Mirror of Truth]
[Betrayer of Humanity] / Berserking
[Deadly Gladiator's Libram of Fortitude]

Fully raidbuffed stats (w/o Amplify Magic and Focus Magic):
6.760 AP
41.92% Crit Chance
0.00% Miss Chance (8.11% hit / 233 rating)
0.00% Dodge Chance (27 Expertise / 223 rating)
35.31% Melee Haste (239 haste rating)
--
5.805 Total DPS


BiS 2pc T7.5 (including leather)
[Obsidian Greathelm] - Arcanum of Torment - Relentless Earthsiege Diamond / Enchanted Tear
[Favor of the Dragon Queen] - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Valorous Redemption Shoulderplates] - Greater Inscription of the Axe - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Drape of the Deadly Foe] - Major Agility

Changes:
[Chestguard of the Recluse] - Powerful Stats - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Thrusting Bands] - Greater Assault - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Frosted Adroit Handguards] - Crusher - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Girdle of Chivalry] - 2x Bold Scarlet Ruby

[Valorous Redemption Legplates] - Icescale Leg Armor - 2x Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Melancholy Sabatons] - Icewalker
[Surge Needle Ring] - Assault
[Ruthlessness] - Assault
[Darkmoon Card: Greatness]
[Fury of the Five Flights] / [Mirror of Truth]
[Betrayer of Humanity] / Berserking
[Deadly Gladiator's Libram of Fortitude]

Fully raidbuffed stats (w/o Amplify Magic and Focus Magic):
6.672 AP
44.50% Crit Chance
0.08% Miss Chance (7.92% hit / 227 rating)
0.03% Dodge Chance (26 Expertise / 212 rating) <- most likely roundoff error
35.16% Melee Haste (236 haste rating) // +63 Armor Penetration Rating (Chest)
--
5.898 Total DPS

• *.xml-File: Aiya_Leather.xml Download File on FileFront

Conclusion: It's safe to say that with the weighting changes towards seal damage it's worth breaking the 4pc set bonus. Legplates and shoulders are the strong parts so we should keep them. For those who are not bound to special loot rules: When comparing BiS plate to leather gear, you are swaping 90 AP and a minuscule amount of haste and hit for 2.5% crit chance and 63 armorpen. All you need are two ilvl 226 leather pieces from Malygos (the higher itemlevel is most likely making the deal) and Noth's wrists (perfectly fitting). I would not suggest to use [Leggings of the Honored], they have far to much hit.



Horde

BiS 2pc T7.5 (only plate) - w/o heroic presence
[Obsidian Greathelm] - Arcanum of Torment - Relentless Earthsiege Diamond / Enchanted Tear
[Favor of the Dragon Queen] - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Valorous Redemption Shoulderplates] - Greater Inscription of the Axe - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Drape of the Deadly Foe] - Major Agility
[Undiminished Battleplate] - Powerful Stats

Changes:
[Wristbands of the Sentinel Huntress] - Greater Assault - 1x Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Crude Discolored Battlegrips] - Crusher - 1x Bold Scarlet Ruby

[Girdle of Razuvious] - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Valorous Redemption Legplates] - Icescale Leg Armor - 2x Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Melancholy Sabatons] - Icewalker
[Surge Needle Ring] - Assault
[Ruthlessness] - Assault
[Darkmoon Card: Greatness]
[Fury of the Five Flights] / [Mirror of Truth]
[Betrayer of Humanity] / Berserking
[Deadly Gladiator's Libram of Fortitude]

Fully raidbuffed stats (w/o Amplify Magic and Focus Magic):
6.710 AP
43.18% Crit Chance
0.04% Miss Chance (7.96% hit / 261 rating)
0.00% Dodge Chance (26 Expertise / 212 rating) <- most likely roundoff error
32.03% Melee Haste (172 haste rating)
--
5.774 Total DPS


BiS 2pc T7.5 (including leather)
[Obsidian Greathelm] - Arcanum of Torment - Relentless Earthsiege Diamond / Enchanted Tear
[Favor of the Dragon Queen] - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Valorous Redemption Shoulderplates] - Greater Inscription of the Axe - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Drape of the Deadly Foe] - Major Agility
[Chestguard of the Recluse] - Powerful Stats - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Thrusting Bands] - Greater Assault - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Frosted Adroit Handguards] - Crusher - Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Girdle of Chivalry] - 2x Bold Scarlet Ruby
[Valorous Redemption Legplates] - Icescale Leg Armor - 2x Bold Scarlet Ruby

Changes:
[Dawnwalkers] - Greater Assault

[Surge Needle Ring] - Assault
[Ruthlessness] - Assault
[Darkmoon Card: Greatness]
[Fury of the Five Flights] / [Mirror of Truth]
[Betrayer of Humanity] / Berserking
[Deadly Gladiator's Libram of Fortitude]

Fully raidbuffed stats (w/o Amplify Magic and Focus Magic):
6.620 AP
44.36% Crit Chance
0.00% Miss Chance (8.08% hit / 265 rating)
0.03% Dodge Chance (26 Expertise / 212 rating) <- most likely roundoff error
35.16% Melee Haste (236 haste rating) // +63 Armor Penetration Rating (Chest)
--
5.850 Total DPS

This is only one possible 8.580 DPS combo, I found another one with [Bracers of Unrelenting Attack], [Dawnwalkers] with Icewalker and the new expertise ring Inscribed Ring of the Kirin Tor (so it's not right available).


Feel free to correct me concerning better gear setups or errors.

//Edit: Added bufflist and mob type screenshots to keep conditions equal. RAWR example *.xml added as well.

Are you sure that using 4p 7,5 isn't viable anymore with 3.1?

It's viable.... but a DPS loss over BiS pieces. 4pc T7 lost alot of it's charm when judgements get nerfed. The best thing 4pc T7 has now over BiS pieces is better mana regen, which honestly should be the last of our worries atm.

Since we're on the topic here's my 3.1 starter set. Slightly different, but basically the same as the Leather version noted above. Richie3.1starter.xml Download File on FileFront

The question of when exactly to break the 4 piece would best be solved by going to a spreadsheet and putting in pieces, however 4 pc will probably be broken rather fast. It's just not worth alot in 3.1.

Using your gear setup under my conditions (no crusade, enhanced windfury totems, same professions), it gives me a 5.754 DPS. There's also another discrepancy concerning your talent spec (1 point in divinity and only 4/5 divine strength), so I guess you were using an old rawr build. Please upgrade Rawr to v2.2.0b6 and upgrade your rawr.retribution.dll (link).

Comparing different gear setups from different clients, there's a lot that can differ.

Ah, Forgot to do the talents lol. It's 2.2.06b tho with the .dll patched in.

Here's the updated one with better talents. I did change out Bladed Steelboots for Dawnwalkers however.
Richie3.1starter.xml Download File on FileFront

Edit: Why don't you take crusade?
Also I have it set to Bandits Insignia, Mainly because I never plan on getting FotFF, so switching trinkets would probably give a better view, since BI isn't even modeled in Rawr (from the Rawr Thread the proc is worth like 52 dps, but it's not in Rawr, so it's hard to compare two sets when one has a broken trinket.)

Right. You still get the 3% dmg though. You just made it sound like you didn't even spec into it, which was what the confusion was about.

Edit: Here's what I don't get. When I plug mine in with the usual buffs (no imp WF or Focus magic or Amp magic), and boss debuffs, I get 5932 with my gearset with FotFF, then when I switch the bracers, boots, and belt to yours(because thats the only difference) I get 5892. Thats with it set to "other"

As I said before it's 2.2.06b, with Endo's .dll file, so it should be the same client.

To Stabby, yeah thats what I was saying, it was just confusing because it sounded like they didnt' spec into crusade at all.