The Retribution Paladin Thread (Wrath/3.0) - Page 235

Sideshow · 04/13/09, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by HamSlammer

Two EJ members did great work over in the Benefactor's Bar about this quite a bit ago. They found that there's generally two places to slap your Bloodlust, depending on the fight. If it's a fight that requires you to burn at a specific point (Phase 2 Kael, for an example), that's when you Lust.

If it's just a tank n' spank, you blow it at the start. The only exception to this is if you only can get one round of CDs in (generally, < 120 seconds), then you save CDs and drop it at the tail end.

so apparently my question got lost in translation.. I'm not asking when is the best time to pop heroism, that is out of my control anyway. My question is which of the following two cases is better:

Fight A:
Two avenging wraths, 1 heroism - none of them stacking

Fight B:
One avenging wrath, stacking perfectly with heroism

Edit: And has this/will it change with 3.1 and the increase on haste (heroism/BL) itemization value?

Exemplar · 04/13/09, 12:58 PM

Haste change only affects Haste Rating - not haste from Heroism/Bloodlust. So the benefits of H/BL is still 30% before and after.

Simple math. Haste increases white and seal procs by 30%.
Total white+seal under BL = 130%, total specials = 100%
100% specials + 130% white+seal will always be < 200% specials + 200% white+seal

2 AW always wins. You get 200% the white+seal procs under 2 AW, you get 130% under 1 w/BL.

aylen86 · 04/13/09, 1:17 PM

Originally Posted by Baklava09

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Using this combination as a JC/Enchanter, not utilizing the crusade talent by selecting Other as mob type, I came up with 5803 dps. The only other change I made to buffs was add improved windfury totem and de-selecting heroic presence since I am horde.

As Alliance I selected Heroic Presence and replaced Iron-Spring Jumpers with Dawnwalkers, and changed out the 8str8hit gem in leggings for 16 str gem and received 5858 dps as a result.

_____________________________________________________

Using your gearset as an Enchanter/Blacksmith, I came up with 5702 DPS (Horde) and 5755 DPS (Alliance). In addition, Rawr shows that Redemption Battlegear 4 piece bonus is only worth 37.39 DPS. It's no mistake to wear 4/5 t7, but breaking this setup down to 2 piece t7 is better, when you already own some of the BiS offset pieces.

Antonetz · 04/13/09, 3:54 PM

Ok, I am getting some conflicting information on this and would appreciate some clarification.
I understand 2 issues have come up / been discovered that causes Ret to look at hit in a different light.

2 roll System (Essentially miss cuts into critical strike chance)
Re weighting of judgment in regards to total dps. (3.1)

Does this mean that retribution spec should be hit capped now (Current patch) or wait till 3.1 to be hit capped? From what I understand we should be hit capped now and hit cap grows even more important in the patch.

• Zurm · 04/13/09, 3:58 PM

Originally Posted by Antonetz

Does this mean that retribution spec should be hit capped now (Current patch) or wait till 3.1 to be hit capped? From what I understand we should be hit capped now and hit cap grows even more important in the patch.

There is no reason to be hit capped now. While its not BAD, it generally means you gemmed for hit or took less than ideal gear choices. STR is king until tomorrow. Come 3.1, hit AND expertise are both weighed higher than STR, due to the discovery of a 2-roll system. Crit also lost a little bit of value.

Next time, please try to read at least the last 10 pages or so of the thread before posting, this was answered numerous times.

Exemplar · 04/13/09, 4:15 PM

Actually, per my spreadsheet, hit cap is more advantageous than Str even on live. You'll have to take my word for it since I haven't released a new live version - I won't until 3.1 and then release that version updated further. Since Rawr is already updated for 3.1 I don't think they could easily go back and test this. The 2 roll system advanced hit's utility by just that margin more than Str.

Increased seal damage makes it a clear leader in 3.1, gem and enchant for hit cap. If you're Alliance you can even go the route of casters and form a set of gear with a Draenei and one without (casters do this for with Misery/Imp FF and when without).

So, yes, feel free to go ahead and enchant Precision on gloves and/or gem for hit. Even on live. Yes, this coming from Your friendly "Gem only Str, stop asking" Exemplar. I've changed my ways.

Edit: To be even more explicit I would do the following if not hit capped.
1. If over 16 hit rating away, enchant Precision.
2. If still more than 16 below hit cap, gem Yellows (16 hit) until all yellow sockets are full (socket bonuses!).
3. Still below hit cap, change head enchant from Arcanum of Torment to Glyph of Ferocity.
4. Still below? Hit gems in blue sockets.
5. Still below?!??! Hit in red sockets and cry.

If you get to ~10 or less hit rating to reach cap, use an Orange (8 Hit/8 Str) gem instead of a Yellow. 11+ it's worthwhile to overshoot slightly, since it still affects spells.

Baklava09 · 04/13/09, 7:19 PM

Originally Posted by aylen86

Using your gearset as an Enchanter/Blacksmith, I came up with 5702 DPS (Horde) and 5755 DPS (Alliance). In addition, Rawr shows that Redemption Battlegear 4 piece bonus is only worth 37.39 DPS. It's no mistake to wear 4/5 t7, but breaking this setup down to 2 piece t7 is better, when you already own some of the BiS offset pieces.

You are 100% correct. 2 piece with best in slot leather is the way to go. Unfortunately many paladins like myself never bothered to pick them up and now it is so close to 3.1 that it really doesn't matter. I just wanted to let others know that you won't be sacrificing a HUGE dps loss still using the 4 piece bonus. I do recommend breaking it immediately with Ulduar gear though.

Gaizen · 04/13/09, 7:55 PM

Originally Posted by Sideshow

so apparently my question got lost in translation.. I'm not asking when is the best time to pop heroism, that is out of my control anyway. My question is which of the following two cases is better:

Fight A:
Two avenging wraths, 1 heroism - none of them stacking

Fight B:
One avenging wrath, stacking perfectly with heroism

Edit: And has this/will it change with 3.1 and the increase on haste (heroism/BL) itemization value?

A. For a more personal gain of dps

B. More for raid damage. Like achivement runs and such. Imo

Ophylia · 04/13/09, 8:07 PM

Can anyone from PTR comment on if it's better to wear tier8 or BiS items? I can see some items being clearly better than the tier equivalent, but what is the bonus worth? Having both bonuses seems to be pretty good, increasing the damage of almost everything in your rotation by 10%.
Basically just looking for thoughts or maybe tests people have done, since obviously not all loot is known yet.

Dorvan · 04/13/09, 8:22 PM

Originally Posted by Gaizen

A. For a more personal gain of dps

B. More for raid damage. Like achivement runs and such. Imo

That doesn't make any sense....when it comes to you personally selecting the timing of when you're going to use AW, whatever maximizes your personal DPS maximizes raid DPS as well. From an DPS perspective, you should always use 2 AWs that are not sync'ed with Heroism/Bloodlust over 1 AW which is sync'ed. The only reason to do otherwise is that you need to burst through a particularly dangerous phase when heroism is popped....in other words when burst DPS during a specific time frame is more important than overall DPS.

Endoscient · 04/13/09, 8:24 PM

Originally Posted by Gaizen

A. For a more personal gain of dps

B. More for raid damage. Like achivement runs and such. Imo

These two statements are totally contradictory. As AW only effects your personal dps, what increases your dps the most increases the raid dps the most.

It is better to use two separate AWs. Bloodlust would need to at least double your dps for only 1 AW to be worth it.

Thorgred · 04/13/09, 8:31 PM

Just wondering what people are doing with their spare talent points.
As far as i can see, THIS is the PVE Ret spec, with 13 points spare. I like taking Command so I dont kill myself whilst soloing (ive done it before

)

Im looking at different healing builds i can create with the leftover points. If you don't invest in BOM, you can get Spiritual Focus, Healing Light, 2/5 Divine Intellect and 3/5 Illumination.
Or instead of heading for illumination you can get SF, HL and 5/5 Divinity.

Or, you can pick up nearly all of the PVP talents (Divine Purpose E4E, Vindication, Guardian's Favor, Stoicism) +2 and get a PVE and PVP build from the same spec. I don't PVP much/at all so that likely won't be my choice, but others may want it.
What are other people doing?

Alleyra · 04/13/09, 8:44 PM

Just a general heads up for everyone.

Originally Posted by MMO-Champion

Patch 3.1 on Live Servers this Week

There isn't any official confirmation yet but according to ... external information, Patch 3.1 should be deployed this week on live servers (Let's say 95% chances just to not say 100%). There isn't any confirmation for the moment and you will probably have to trust me a little on this one. Yes, this is the first time I confirm a patch release only based on information I got in the past hours, let's hope I don't end up looking stupid in front of a lot of readers.

MMO-Champion is reporting that 3.1 will be going live tonight. I realize they're not always accurate, but their recent track record has been stellar.

• Snowy · 04/13/09, 9:28 PM

Locking this per request of the author. A new thread for 3.1 will be forthcoming very soon -- in the interim if you have questions, please just be patient.