Meh, not usually -- gotta stay on top of Divine Plea

AoW still resets the swing timer and Quartz swing timer is not 100% accurate.


Here is information to add on Profession Benefits:

BS: 101 AP (extra 2x20 str sockets)
JC: 86 AP (3x27 str gems vs 3x20 str gems + no need for blue gem for meta, so extra 10 str)
LW: 64 AP (Bracer enchant)
Enchanting: 64 AP (2x ring enchants)
Inscription: 64 AP (Shoulder enchant + no need to do Sons dailies for a month)
Alchemy: 64 AP (Using 180 AP Flask + 2 more hours on flasks)
Skinning: 25 Crit Rating
Herbalism: Ability to use Fire Seeds as a consumable
Tailoring has melee proc on the cloak at the expense of 22 agility

Since 20 str gems are not available yet, JC benefit is slightly stronger now (27 str vs 16 str).

Divine plea is a godsend even as prot especially in heroics. It probably cuts 10 minutes off the heroic time because you dont have to drink between trash pulls.

Got some maybe noob questions... Are the attackes Crusader strike and Divine Storm normalized ? And what speed is used for normalization ?

Yes, normalized to 3.3.

I've been thinking about the ghost hit, and it may be a "selfless raid buffer" bonus tied to one of our talents and not mentioned in the tooltip. Could be part of Sanctified/Swift Retribution. I may test this when I get home.

What if we make it a mouseover or a macro?

Then again, maybe the problem with it is just that. The fact tat although we have many shortcuts to skip the targetting of ourselves, for the sake of the spell it still has to target us anyway whether or not we are in the target screen. Thus the hostile->friendly->hostile target change interrupts said swing timer. Nvm....they worked out the kinks with shamans Maelstrom weapon so that it wouldn't interupt their swing timer so I guess that is not the case.

As far as the ghost judgements, I have had them too, in fact it seems to be happening more often recently. People report a difference (although it still happens) when you alternate judgements. It is getting frustrating though ><

TY for your response, I have played for awhile but it was only towards the end of TBC that I even started to look closely into theorycraft. With the release of the expansion I have made it my mission to get as involved into it as I can.

Are we sure that AoW heals still trigger a swing reset? At the end of beta they did not, though I'll admit I haven't really bothered to look or test it on live. A combat log of a full swing cycle+AoW would be most helpful here (be sure to include the weapon speed on your char sheet)

Actually, I've been having a hard time keeping my mana up on longer fights, less so in heroics, more so in 10 and 25 mans. On a few fights, I've had to switch to SoW for 20-30 seconds just to get my mana back up to effective levels until Divine Plea or Arcane Torrent are off cooldown. This goes in addition to burning a Runic Mana Potion.

I use Seal of Blood for PvE raiding and the FCFS rotation prioritizing JoW. I also have Exorcism and Consecration thrown into the mix. I've been told that if I stop consecrating, I won't have any mana issues. However, I feel that I'm struggling to keep up on the DPS charts as it is on certain encounters where SA keeps my mana high and I can't afford to remove it from the rotation.

It could be a problem with my glyphs? I haven't touched them since 3.0 came out pre-WOTLK except to add the one at 80.

Azu, are you aware of the "missing judgement" issue that has been discussed in this forum? There is anecdotal evidence that sometimes judging, more so in 25 mans almost never soloing, doesn't give any mana return benefit or cause damage. Depending on the frequency of this occurrence, it would lead to mana issues.

Several people have suggested using a castsequence macro to alternate between Judgement of Wisdom and Judgement of Light which may work around the issue.

Hope this helps.

I'll try it out tonight. Thanks!

In an attempt to improve my own DPS i took an example from Sigurd on the old ret thread and came up with a new spreadsheets of Ret spell rotations and priorities. I hope this might be a usefull contribution to the guide here. I haven't quite figured out how to incorporate SoB uptime and Procs.. but if there's interest and my spreadsheet isn't off by all that much i'd be glad to update. Or if anyone feels like improving on it that's fine too.

Also by all means any corrections or criticism is welcome as i've only been ret since the expansion and learning as i go.

http://www.twistedrevenge.com/images/30RetCycle.zip

True but if you get caught in a Vortex low on hp because of those crits you're going to be in trouble. For Loatheb, I just have my shaman bounce the chain heals off of me, I've never really had a problem with coming close to death and I have pretty good gear. Still either way, I think it's worth the point, even if it's only for one fight, because we have plenty of points.

This is going to sound retarded, and I apologize in advance. I have no problem using SoB on loatheb, but instead on 25 man patchwork. I use SOB and judge it, and my health goes down. Then a healer sees that, and heals me, and all of a sudden I have way to much health and Boom, i've been hit for 30K and am dead as a doornail. 10 man is fine, 25 man not so much. I'm the only ret pally, so I'm the only non tank taking any dmg in the fight. If I switch to SoC, i just go oom. A dead pally does no dps, white hitting paladin does very little. Any suggestions?

Why the hell your healer is healing melee is beyond me. I used SoB tonight and it was fine in 10 mans, will test it out in 25 mans when the Stormscale stops lagging like crazy. Even using SoB you will probably get healed if you have a feral or dk in the raid setup. My advice would be to really monitor your mana/hp, dive in the slime then use divine plea (and arc torrent is you are horde.)

That shouldn't happen if you use 1 MT, 2 hateful tanks, and make sure the hateful tanks get hit by a hateful strike before you do any damage.

At 60 there was a positioning bug where offtanks did not get the strike. To solve it they just had to shuffle slightly, whether this still applys i do not know, but i have not seen this at 80. Make sure your offtanks are actually getting the strike. If they are then shout at the healers for not topping them fast enough.

From my knowledge, Leatherworking's AP gain would only be 64 AP just like Enchanting, Inscription or the like. Due to Fur Lining giving 114 AP, and the best Enchant giving 50 AP. That one just seemed like outdated info, but I may be missing something. Disregard if it's not the case.

I actually make sure it's always on CD and I went OOM last night on Patchwerk very fast, my HP by a lot and I do get healed but damn it I had to use SoW just to get my mana back up..

And what I did for a 'rotation' is basically keep Consecration up and Judge whenever it's off CD, and next on priority is Exorcism/HW/CS/DS.

I have a trinket question for all you retradins out there.


For now, i use Mirror of Truth, and Figurine - Emerald boar with 2x27str gems in it.
And the 8th of dec im going to get darkmoon card greatness.

And im wondering, how good is mirror of truth really?
The Emerald boar now gives 220 constant AP, wich is quite nice.

So when i get darkmoon card greatness, should i get rid of Mirror of truth, or Emerald boar to be able to put thouse 27 str gems elsewhere?

I like the idea behind the macro, but I haven't found it any more useful unfortunately. Last night on patchwerk I was almost OOM after 2 mins, I could barely manage Judge/CS/DS and towards the end I was stuck with just Judge/CS. Pretty depressing having to play like that, no fun at all.

I think its more to do with refreshing the debuff during a white swing when you judge, and I see this more in a raid environment because there are a ton of haste buffs in effect.

What annoys me is Blizzard are so quick to nerf, yet so slow to fix things. I know fixing it is probably harder, but they could easily hotfix JotW to give more back until they do fix it, yet they don't.

Quick question about PvE librams. Just got [Libram of Radiance] and I was wandering if that damage increase in CS is better than the crit provided by [Venture Co. Libram of Retribution].