The Retribution Paladin Thread (Wrath/3.0) - Page 42

flexbutt · 01/09/09, 11:46 AM

I assumed my bastardization of RV was wrong, I think the overall number manages to be the same but I definitely used incorrect math to arrive to it.

As for my wws, the training dummy is still broken with RV. When the dummy was at 1 hitpoint, it ticked for 1 (as usual). Occasionally though, the dummy would be at a negative value (tracked with InstantHealth) in which it ticked for 32. It's really hard to test the exact math for RV when the dummies don't work.

Just testing my previous numbers with the amortization formula.
My (incorrect) formula
500 - tick
500 - tick
500 - tick (new crit, adds 1200 (tick for 300))
800 - tick
300 - tick
300 - tick
300 - tick

Sum: 3200

One given by Exemplar:
500 - tick
500 - tick
500 - tick (new crit, adds 1200 (tick for 300)) last tick of 500
425 - tick
425 - tick
425 - tick
425 - tick

Sum:3200

Ok, so as I said. Right solution, wrong equation.

Mezzeric, unless this is on the new build (unsure if the new PTR build was released yet), this was already reported.

MMO-Champion BlueTracker - [BUG] Avenging Wrath still causes Forbearance

Fiola · 01/09/09, 1:36 PM

Originally Posted by Left

The first amount (814*4 = 3256) is ~40% of 7301 (actually 44.5%, but I can't explain that 4.5%). After three ticks, ~814 remain. Then, DS crits for 2936, adding ~2936*0.4 = ~958. (814+958)/4 = ~443, which would be the logical tick value. The actual tick value is 524, which is close-ish, but again higher than expected. Finally, one tick of that goes off, then another crit judgement happens. Let's use 524, the actual tick value, for the calc: (524*3 + 0.4*7817)/4 = ~1175 is our new expected tick value. Actual tick value is ~1224, again higher but in the ballpark. This ticks four times, then RV fades.

I'm at a loss to explain the small differences in damage and percentages, but I can only assume it has to do with various debuffs being applied to or removed from the boss and/or buff factors which increase RV that I'm not aware of. However, digging those out of the WWS would take a lot of effort.

There's definitely something weird going on.

If you look at the following 2 parts, you'll notice that the resisted damage does not match up.

00:00'19.176 Grand Widow Faerlina suffers 755 Holy damage from Scyllyth Righteous Vengeance. (72 Resisted)
00:00'21.812 Grand Widow Faerlina suffers 814 Holy damage from Scyllyth Righteous Vengeance.
. . .
00:00'29.304 Grand Widow Faerlina suffers 1224 Holy damage from Scyllyth Righteous Vengeance.
00:00'31.164 Grand Widow Faerlina suffers 978 Holy damage from Scyllyth Righteous Vengeance. (210 Resisted)
00:00'33.568 Grand Widow Faerlina suffers 1101 Holy damage from Scyllyth Righteous Vengeance. (105 Resisted)

For the first part, we expect 814 damage but get 755 damage, losing 59 damage. However, the combat log shows 72 resisted. 59 damage is 82~% of 72 damage.

For the 2nd part, we expect 1224 damage/tick, but lose 246 damage (210 resisted) and 123 damage (105 resisted) respectively. 246/210 ~= 123/105 = 117%

On Live just now, I got 206 damage ticks where I'd expect 200 damage. (2499 crit w/ 4/5 RV, Crusade, Ret aura) I'm planning to play with this more later when I have more free time. (and dig through that WWS to see if I can find a pattern)

flexbutt · 01/09/09, 1:39 PM

From those numbers it seems it would be either Ret Aura OR Crusade, but not both.

Left · 01/09/09, 2:35 PM

Something else to keep in mind, at least as of 2.x mechanics, is that the "resisted" values in parethesis usually don't take into account damage multipliers. I can't remember the context of the original post(s) I saw or even which multipliers exactly were in play, but it was something like "if you take damage from a fireball when a 3% spell damage multiplier is up, you'll see something like:"

Target takes 206 damage from Player's fireball (200 resisted)

So that might be affecting the numbers as well.

Belshazar · 01/09/09, 3:14 PM

Originally Posted by Fiola

There's definitely something weird going on.

If you look at the following 2 parts, you'll notice that the resisted damage does not match up.

For the first part, we expect 814 damage but get 755 damage, losing 59 damage. However, the combat log shows 72 resisted. 59 damage is 82~% of 72 damage.

For the 2nd part, we expect 1224 damage/tick, but lose 246 damage (210 resisted) and 123 damage (105 resisted) respectively. 246/210 ~= 123/105 = 117%

On Live just now, I got 206 damage ticks where I'd expect 200 damage. (2499 crit w/ 4/5 RV, Crusade, Ret aura) I'm planning to play with this more later when I have more free time. (and dig through that WWS to see if I can find a pattern)

Maybe the metagem is adding the 3%? RV being derived from critical strikes it would make sense.

greatrichie · 01/09/09, 4:21 PM

This is my first time posting here, but is the Hit Cap 8 or 9% I keep reading it's 8%, but after 3 hours of hitting the target dummy (more than once) naked with an axe, it always come out to 9%, give or take .1%.

Hailley · 01/09/09, 4:53 PM

Originally Posted by greatrichie

This is my first time posting here, but is the Hit Cap 8 or 9% I keep reading it's 8%, but after 3 hours of hitting the target dummy (more than once) naked with an axe, it always come out to 9%, give or take .1%.

I believe its 8%. I was wondering the same thing until I examined the WWS in more detail of our guilds Naxx. WWS Loading...

if you can see I had 2.5% miss in white dmg, and 2.6% in DS.

I had 101 hit (unbuff), used hit food (141 hit total) then add draenei aura 1% more.

so I had an ~ of 5.3% hit. 8%-5.3% = 2.7% miss rate. So it would seem that the miss rate is truly 8%.

greatrichie · 01/09/09, 4:56 PM

Was your testing done pre or post hotfix? main reason I ask is that pre-hotfix, I could be naked and have about a 5% miss chance(I had ghost hit), which would be 8%, but now I'm back to needing 9% to not miss anything.

Hailley · 01/09/09, 4:58 PM

I never had the ghost hit, otherwise I would of not have missed at all then in regards to white dmg/CS/DS

greatrichie · 01/09/09, 5:07 PM

I realize that, and I had a 8% hit cap also, pre hotfix. Now it's 9%, just seeing if anyone else was experiencing the same. I can't open your WWS for some reason so I don't know if it was pre or post hotfix.

Hailley · 01/09/09, 5:12 PM

Hm, I'll keep a tab in the next 25man Naxx I'm in and check up on that.

Either way I need to pickup a grim toll. It is sort of weird how RawR values grim toll so high despite ArPen being a meh stat for us.

eMagdAeH · 01/09/09, 5:37 PM

The one saving grace of Grim Toll is that it has the potential to become good in 3.1. Somewhere in this thread someone had noted that post-1k passive ArPen (excluding debuffs on the mob) it starts to scale very well. They have spoken about possibly making ArPen more worthwhile later on, and even if they don't, the chances of 1k + ArPen on our gear is quite likely. It might be worth picking it up anyway just because it might end up being very useful later on. This is all total hear-say, but the potential is there.

ingen · 01/09/09, 8:52 PM

Just curious - has anyone thought of replacing their [Mirror of Truth] with [Sphere of Red Dragon's Blood] to reach the hit cap? I question MoT's usefulness sometimes.. so it's more a matter of the hit vs. crit when you're 3% below the cap..

I passed twice on Grim Toll cause Blizz posted about it while i was in there!

Neto- · 01/09/09, 9:40 PM

Originally Posted by ingen

so it's more a matter of the hit vs. crit when you're 3% below the cap..

Hm? Mirror of Truth is 200 passive AP at 50s ICD, and Sphere is only 107 passive AP on a 120s CD.

Junlex · 01/09/09, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by greatrichie

This is my first time posting here, but is the Hit Cap 8 or 9% I keep reading it's 8%, but after 3 hours of hitting the target dummy (more than once) naked with an axe, it always come out to 9%, give or take .1%.

Some rough testing, only a fairly small sample size (1099 swings). At 8.08% hit I had 0 misses over 1099 swings. At 7.4% hit I saw a miss within the first 100 swings. If the cap really was now 9% one would expect to see ~10 misses over 1,099 swings. So I don't believe anything has changed in that regard, still 8%.

I did have the 3% ghost hit pre-hotfix, and was not seeing any melee swings miss at just over 5% hit.

Not that it should make any difference but I was specced prot while testing and these are one hand weapon swings I'm talking about.