Fanvast

I to have been wondering as to why my DPS has dropped significantly. My place on top 5 of the meters is now the bottom 5, could this be a return of the Judgement bug? I would certaintly hope so, as I recently got a BoH and 4 piece and seem to be doing worse. Granted, my hit is very low (114) vs+ around 250 when I didnt have 4 piece, however I would assume 4 piece would be worth the hit reduction.

If the judgement bug is back, I feel like it explains alot of my problems. Heres a WoWmeter

WoW Meter Online - The Best World of Warcraft Combat Log Analyse System!Fully support Wrath of the Lich King!

CS>J>DS>CS>EX FCFS
I used Insane Strength Potions as I popped AW, which I did at the beginning of the fights.

Do I need more hit? Judgement bug?

 

Dragonspear

@Fanvast - here are some things that I have come up for you while I am at work. (Napkin math)

1st - Try using the J>HoW>Con>CS>DS>Exo system.
If you had used this you would have Gained 1 more Judgement on Patchwerk alone. On patch it looks as if you had (assuming perfect world and perfect latency) 85 GCDs used out of 104 possible.

2nd - On a fight like Patchwerk, if you know that your raid is going to call Bloodlust at about 30% which it looks like they did, save your Insane Strength pot for this time period.

3rd - More hit might help a little bit if you can swap in some otherwise equivalent gear for some with hit.

4th - Pick up a Titansteel Helm and get the T7.5 gloves instead of using the Deadly Gloves and the T7.5 helm. You will notice a nice increase in DPS.

Happy Hitting ^.^

 

Sanglier

I find that my tank moves VERY erradically so its hard to get in a rhythm. This is my first wow character and I rolled him at the start of BC. From the start I was holy and I put a lot of stock in the rhythm of a class and spec. this is why I hate pvp its too fasty fasty for me.

On the HoW macro, how does that work? point and push the button rather than a potential point and click situation? When we did 25-man grob last night we had like 4 adds, I think its a mix of my concecration never being able to serve its full term on the boss and loosing some CS.

Is there a way to look through your WWS and see if your judgements are bugging? I'd like to spend the time.

 

Alukard-Z28

I've been reading through most of this forum, and to me it looks like people have made up their mind that 4piece t7 is the best way to go with their ret pallies. As you can see i decided to take a different route, and have seen a massive dps increase. Feel free to check out my armory and let me know what u think of my gear itemization

Thanks

- Alukard <Lightninghoof>

The World of Warcraft Armory

 

Galweyn

Is there a new issue with Judgements?

my judgements hit significantly lower than last week... ~10,5k max this week compared to ~13k+ last week...
was there a stealth nerf to judgement dmg?

it could be really bad rng... but looking at the Fanvasts log, his max judgement was also ~10,5k....

 

• Avitus

Staying in melee range is in the 101 of playing a melee class, try to nail that down as a priority. The mod mentioned should go a long way with that.

The HoW macro is point and push yes, like any other mouse over macro. Use "V" to have healthbars on the mobs around you (best with a mod like Aloft) and execute when low via mouseover.


Thanks for that gem, this is amazing. Just rewrote all my macros.

 

Odinage

Posting that you feel you have <x> without some figures as proof to back it up or explain why <x> is occuring isn't helpful to the discussion of the thread.

Can you try to post some WWS (or equivalent) reports to back up your statement?

 

Cae

I also noticed this recently.

 

Lightbender

My judgments were also critting a lot less than they should have been. I don't have a WWS parse, but I recall looking at the recount stats and noticing a less than 50% crit rate for my judgments on almost every boss in naxx, when my crit chance for judgment was around 70%.

 

Galweyn

in some parsers, the recoil dmg dmg from blood is listed as a rgular hit... because the recoil dmg can`t crit, your crit rate is halved in these logs...

 

eMagdAeH

I know a lot of people are expressing that they have seen a drop in DPS since 3.0.8. I can't say I've seen the same problem. I don't have any more WWS existing for pre-3.0.8, but for an equivalent night of Sarth2D/3D attempts, Maly kill, and finishing up whatever time is left in Naxx I was running at about 3.5k DPS while I hit 4k DPS on that last night.

Here's last night's WWS:
Wow Web Stats

Specifically last night, I even started helping heal during Shadron in Sarth3D due to damage recoil. Even with Seal of Command our healers were having a hard time keeping me and the tanks up. This obviously gimped my DPS quite a bit for that minute or so each attempt.

As much as it might suck to admit, RNG has not been our guild's friend in gear drops. Several must have pieces have dropped only once or never have dropped (including Ruthlessness and Bracers of Unrelenting Attack). My gear is exactly the same as it was pre-3.0.8. So, gear is not going to account for the increase in DPS by about 500. I have worked on new rotations and such since 3.0.8, but I really don't think it would account for a 500 DPS increase either.

Here's my armory link:
The World of Warcraft Armory

As for group make-up, the only class/spec we haven't ever had in the raid is Moonkin (due to crappy availability on our server). Our elemental shaman is very part time, so he's not consistently around either. Beyond that, we have all other vital class specs. I never receive Tricks of the Trade, Aboms. Might (when we have it), or Focus Magic due to being either number 1 or 2 in DPS (the raid leader feels that helping others who are lower makes better use of those buffs...that's a topic of debate for another day).

Perhaps someone who's better at catching nuances in WWS stats can explain why people are seeing less DPS while I see an increase?

*Edit for an additional piece of information*

 

flexbutt

It's pretty easy to account loss of dps to a recent patch. I'm however not noticing a difference either. Burst classes can sometimes be unlucky, or buffs might not all be there, or your performance that night might have just sucked. It happens. As for seeing less than 50% judgement crits on WWS, this has been gone over several times in here. WWS reports ALL judgement hits, including recoil.

Try to at least have a WWS handy when reporting less dps in a raid. "It seems like my judgements are critting for less" isn't really much to go off of.

http://wowwebstats.com/w1qahyexczpzw...9219&a=x80e157. There's a Patchwerk parse from just last night. My dps was a few hundred off, but the paladin forgot to toss me might until a few seconds into the fight. As you can see, judgements aren't really doing anything worse than they were before the patch.

 

Dorvan

edit -- realized post I responded to had already been dealt with, this post may be removed.

 

Arthaal

Now that Seals have been moved to a 30min duration, I'd like to see open a discussion on whether or not flat out switching them to auras would be a good idea.

The aura system, when compared to stances/presences, isn't terribly interesting and, contrary to other systems, each aura doesn't easily match up to a specific role. Concentration aura for example isn't terribly useful for PvE healing. Retribution aura provides a better effect for a tank than for a retribution spec paladin in PvE, etc.

Alternatively, seals are, for the most part, role specific. SoL/W/J are support seals, Vengeance/Corruption for tanking, Martyr/Blood/Command for dpsing (SoR is currently a bit of a puzzler... once it's done its job leveling you to 64 it really loses its appeal for everyone). I remember reading a blizzard post on the BETA boards for WotlK stating that if seals were moved to >2min duration they might as well become switches you turn on and off (it was said derisively, to dismiss the idea of longer seals, but look where we are now)... seems now would be a good time to bring that discussion back.

Percent modifiers R'US

 

GSH

I don't understand what you mean. Do you mean simply eliminate the duration and cost on the Seals, like Hunter Aspects?

I suggest you don't use the word Aura, as Auras affect other players.

 

Arthaal

Apologies, to clarify... something like the DK system... maintain the present auras and tack on an seal aspect or simply fuse the two concepts and give auras an additional self only effect.

Percent modifiers R'US

 

Dorvan

I'm not sure what's to be gained there....you lose the flexibility of being able to choose your seal and aura independently, and the only benefit you get is not having to press a button once every 30 minutes.

 

Arthaal

Well not if they exist as seperate presences and auras. And yes, they benefits are rather small... it's more of a neatness factor for me personally. You could have argued that moving from the TBC seal system to the WotlK one was simply a loss of 1 GCD every 2 min. but it was a pretty big shift from a design point of view.

Percent modifiers R'US

 

Dorvan

Yes, but the shift from using a GCD every 8 seconds to 2 minutes to 30 minutes has implications for DPS and mana management. Unless there's a 30 minute boss fight coming up, there's no difference between a 30 min buff and a permanent buff in terms of raid performance. I'm just not sure what makes seals different from any other 30 minute buff (e.g Inner Fire, Shaman weapon imbues, etc.). I guess perhaps your position is that all long term buffs should simply be permanent until death?

 

Arthaal

That was broadly what I was attempting to articulate, yes. It's more nitpicking than anything I suppose, but the aura system is simply very boring and seals, if they're going to be fire and forget buffs, might as well be permanent until death.

Percent modifiers R'US

 

Prinsesa

I think the problem with permanent Seals is that it's a little difficult to attach an appropriate mana cost to something that's going to persist until death. There's something to be said about the concept of switching to Seal of Wisdom if you need the extra mana, but what kind of price tag do we put on switching to Seal of Wisdom in the first place? How about switching from SOComm to SOB to take advantage of a bigger PvP burst, or a Tankadin that leverages SOR on trash that dies too quick for SOV to stack to any appreciable level?

The situation is a little similar to Tankadins that want Righteous Fury to be permanent, as in Defensive Stance. Sure, it's great from a quality-of-life POV, but how do you deal with a Holy Paladin who takes it for 6% DR in PvP? How much should it cost for that Paladin to recast if/when it gets dispelled? Even without the talent, it's still dispel fodder.

====

Since the Mechanics section is still unfilled, I dug through my old notes and cross-referenced them with Thottbot* to get coefficients. Since 3.0.8 caught up all of our tooltips to their hotfixed values, I'm quite confident that all of this is accurate, although I do welcome any proven corrections.

Things that still need confirmation:
1. Last I checked, Seal/Judgement of Light procs do not include spell power gained from Sheath of Light (but does include SP from Touched by the Light). This was way back in TBC 3.0 though.

2. Sacred Shield also allegedly suffers from the same limitation, where normally it should have a spell power coefficient of 75%, although I've played all through WOTLK so far almost exlusively as Prot, so my experience with this new healer spell is quite limited.

*Wowhead used to carry the coefficients in their tooltips before, but lost it for some reason.

EDIT 1: Corrected Seal of Blood coefficient, thanks to Banka

Seal of Command:
45% weapon damage + 23% spell power

Judgement of Command:
24% weapon damage + 16% AP + 25% spell power

Seal of Blood:
27% weapon damage

Judgement of Blood:
36% weapon damage + 16% AP + 25% spell power

Seal of Vengeance:
2.5% AP + 1.3% spell power per tick

Judgement of Vengeance:
(14% AP + 22% spell power) * (1 + number of Vengeance stacks * 0.1)

Seal of Light:
15% AP + 15% spell power (healing proc)

Judgement of Light:
16% AP + 25% spell power (damage)
10% AP + 10% spell power (healing proc)

Seal of Wisdom:
4% of maximum mana (mana proc)

Judgement of Wisdom:
16% AP + 25% spell power (damage)
2% of base mana (mana proc)

Seal of Justice:
No damage/coefficient

Judgement of Justice:
16% AP + 25% spell power (damage)

Consecration:
4% AP + 4% spell power per tick
(Final rank has 113 base damage per tick)

Exorcism:
15% AP + 15% spell power
(Final rank has 1028 base damage)

Hammer of Wrath:
15% AP + 15% spell power
(Final rank has 1139 base damage)

Holy Wrath:
7% AP + 7% spell power
(Final rank has 1050 base damage)

"We do want Sanctuary to be the tanking seal"

- Ghostcrawler

 

Prinsesa

EDIT: Please delete, merged with preceding post.

"We do want Sanctuary to be the tanking seal"

- Ghostcrawler

 

Banka

Seal of blood is 27% of weapon damage, and has been for quite some time (whole of this expansion, as far as I know)

They just never bothered to update the tooltip

 

HamSlammer

Same, as someone else eluded too, we're still prone to massive DPS fluctuations based solely at the whim of RNG. I posted my best Patchwerk last week (5443 - Wow Web Stats) followed by one of my WORST Patchwerks in a while (4876 - Wow Web Stats). Tonight's PW had the same 32% crit on JoB (64% effective) but my top Judgement was a fat 1.3k~ less. I rocked a mighty 36% CS crit and 13% DS crit and my max crits were quite lower (1.7k difference in DS).

The only difference in my gear was I used Fury of the Five Flghts on the good kill and Mirror on the bad kill, and with the help of Murphy's Law, my effective Crit% was worse w/ Mirror.

Our DPS potential is the same, it's just RNG rearing it's head.

 

• Karakas

Fury of the Five Flights is just a better trinket than Mirror so I don't know why you would ever swap the two.