Well, paladins also have 10 min blessings for themselves unless they glyphed into one particular or use greater ones wasting reagents.

Hm, i was pretty sure Patch was not taunt immune as I was taunting him off others when tanks went dead (or maybe it was 10 ppl version of him). Thanks for the update.

Can consecration proc JoW or vindication? They may have left the invisible spell in there so that consecration would be able to proc things that can proc from your spells..

At least pre-3.0, Cons could proc JoW, since Ret has very high JoW procs Cons most likely still procs JoW. I know all our melee attacks (including Prot ones) can proc Vindication, but Vindication cannot in turn proc JoW.

Assuming a 25man raid with a perfectly average number of classes (25/9 = 2.77) so lets round up and say 3 of each class in your raid. Also assuming that all members of said classes agree to having the same type of pallybuff, with no ghetto-over-writes to please the offspecs, you cast 9 times: consuming 9 symbol of kings.

In the same raid,

Priest 1 raidwide Fort = 1 Devout Candle (16s @ exalted)
Mage 1 raidwide Int = 1 Arcane Powder (8s @ exalted)
Druid 1 raidwide GotW = 1 Wild Spineleaf (40s @ exalted)
Paladin 9 Kings(for example only) 18 SoK(9x2 30min buffs) = 22s @ exalted (24s per 20 = 1.2s each x 18)

So, assuming it isnt a shadow fight and the priest doesnt do SR, clearly the Mages get off waaaay too cheap, while the druids get shafted. But cost isn't the point of my argument. I would gladly pay twice as much per reagent if i had buffs that lasted an hour, and beyond that i would be willing to pay even more, say 1g per for a buff that did a RAIDWIDE nonclass bound buff. To press 1 button and give 25ppl Kings would be worth that IMO, even if unjustifiably overpriced.

This interests me greatly.

Many sources and indeed Rawr display DC: Greatness and Mirror of Truth as the optimum trinket pairing, however, your WWS report clearly shows Fury as your 2nd highest buff gain and proccing very frequently.

Do you have a similar report where you are using Mirror of Truth in it's place for comparison?

Correction - There are ten classes.

Mages also drop food trays which cost additional Arcane Powder. And portals for gear in bank, respecs (until dual spec) and end of raid have their own reagents.

One person in the raid dies on a boss. You expend a SoK or give 10min, others give 30 min. In my guild they mostly do a fresh 60min raid buff anyway.
5 people die on a boss - you throw out a few new blessings. Other classes refresh their entire raid buff for full cost.

The costs of SoK are negligible, same with costs for other buffing classes. In Blizzard's terminology it's flavour, which is why they don't remove it even with glyphs. Whining about the costs of buffing people is A) petty and B) not related to Ret.

The root is that we have multiple choices of raid buff and can set for maximum gain. Does a warrior care about Int? Not really, but they enjoy Might. Does the mage care about Fort? Not really, but they enjoy Wisdom. Other classes get a single buff. Versatility > one-click.

I noticed that Potion of Wild Magic has been changed to give 200 crit and 200 spell power. This should put it sliglty over the dps of Insane str/potion of speed. I had not seen it mentioned yet.

Wasn't aware/hadn't noticed. Suspect it was under most people's radar or they saw spelldamage and made an ugly face. I just ran the numbers - you're correct. It does indeed beat out Potion of Speed or Insane Strength and should be noted as the new best opportunity use potion.

If you bothered to read the whole post you would have noticed i said 'its not about the cost but the length'

I simply want my 'flavor' to last twice as long.

The potion used to be 180 sp and 60 crit, nice to see that it is buffed to be 200 of each. By item weights, it is the best potion to use now, at least until Paladins don't need spell power anymore.

Redcape Spreadsheet is putting 500 haste rating over 200 crit rating + 200 spelldamage. Where's the discrepancy?

No idea. Bellator's is putting about 2.1 haste rating = 1 crit rating. So your 200 crit is about 420 haste rating. 200 spelldamage only has to pull ahead of 80 haste, which it did easily.

It's not crazy better than the other potions, but still is better.

While i like the versatility of the seperate blessings a paladin can give, would it be considered 'Overpowered' to remove the global cooldown ?
Mods/macros could be made for 1button raid buffs and no loss of time to re-buff raiders who needed a battle res or ankh

This isn't really the place to discuss things like that.

?? there was talk about the reagent cost/duration of raid buffs..

The conversatin about buff duration and cost was a Red Herring of the subject of 30min seal times and a suggestion that to be fair Symbol of Kings should be doubled in cost. I napkin-mathed it out to illustrate how that was flat wrong.

So the last 2 pages in a Nutshell, I want 30min/1hr buffs, and to be fair the reagent cost would need to approximately double to stay in line Cost per Buff.

Removing the GCD causes issues greater than the one's you seek to prevent

To my knowledge the SoCom glyph was 20% to proc from the first day it came out, but anyways, even with it you wont do as much dps as Blood/martyr. In order to maximize SoCom dps you have to delay abilities to force procs, which isn't worth the concentration. Plus, the added mana regen from Blood's emo damage lets you be liberal with other dps abilities. I believe the final math put SoComm @ approximately 3-4% dps below Blood on a short encounter, with Blood always winning for sustained dps due to mana regen and the ability to push the GCD constantly rather than playing the swing timer game.

Glyph of SoC has been 20% increased chance to proc since midway through beta, at least. It was mathed out extensively back then, and the consensus was that glyphed SoC was almost as good as SoB, and the added opportunity cost of losing a glyph slot and the potential SA mana returns from SoB made it largely not worth it, except for potential gimmick fights where SoB is absolutely unusable (think of a fight like Prince in Kara, where it's guaranteed to kill you, rather than a fight like Loatheb, where it just makes things a little harder on your healers, or Gluth, where you just have to be careful not to drop a big fat judgement just after he decimates).

For those of you running with 4 piece T7 how are you guys attaining the hit cap? Are you and enchanting? (I suspect so) What gems and enchants are you using.

I have 4pc T7 but have not been using it because of Hit.

BTW I am not a warrior anymore. :P

I'm running 4pc t7 and I am not hit capped. It has been stated time and time again that hit cap doesn't matter for ret anymore. Check my armoury profile to see what gear I'm wearing but my current hit is 225 at 6.86%. I have some poor gem choices though. I'm planning on re-gemming when I get my obsidian helm.

Had you read the first post on this thread you would have read that hit cap isn't that important to us. The 4 piece t7 is worth more than hit cap.

First off, 4 piece T7.25 is best to use because Judgements hit so hard. I have 6% hit with 4 Piece from 25-mans and do fine (I think 5400 is my best on Patch).

Also, around 20% of our damage can never miss (Cons and Righteous Vengeance) and Strength is really good to stack when we get 25% extra strength.


If you aren't a Warrior anymore, how about updating your profile?