Great I will give it a try this week. Update profile too.

I know that the consensus is use 4pc set, however I have one question regarding the Leggings of the Honored that drop of Sartharion.

From the spreadsheets and previous posts, I was under the impression that the Honored legs were better than both the T7.5 legs and the Belabored Legplates. I got the Honored leggings tonight, however when I equip them while having Kings, the T7.5 legs actually give more AP. The crit and haste difference is minimal between the two, and I end up with a significant amount of hit, which is also not that important.

I am just curious as to why I am getting more AP with the T7 legs than the Honored ones when I could have sworn the Honored were "best in slot".

85 strength times 1.15 (divine strength) times 1.1 (BoK) = 215 AP, which is more than 196. Seems pretty clear why.

I haven't really seen Leggings of the Honored toted as best in slot very often, but if they were, it would certainly be related to that "significant amount of hit" which you incorrectly concluded was "not that important" (unless you're near the hitcap - then you're right, the hit isn't important, but then the leggings wouldn't be close to best in slot)

AP isn't everything.

While hit is a weaker stat compared to Strength, it still is the second best stat to collect on gear (assuming below 8%). Honored are BiS, however the Sarth 3D helm or Maly gloves are better to use as the non-T7 piece. Honored are a decent 3rd choice though.

Consecrate testing revisited.

Posted a WWS report where I tested consecrate mechanics a bit using 0% hit. The results were that a fairly significant ammount of ticks (139/1000) turned up missing. I then assumed a spell hit mechanic, since this would make the most sense

Sooo without further ado: here's some more testing with higher ammounts of hit (all on the same old heroic training dummy)

100 consecrate applications with 16.05% spell hit: WWS report
As you can see, at 16.05% spell hit you still have some consecrate ticks not landing, which means that you're not capped at 16.05% spell hit

100 consecrate applications with 17.14% spell hit: WWS report
1000/1000 possible consecrate ticks. While this technically doesn't PROVE that the cap would be between 16.05 and 17.14%, it rhymes very well with the spell hit cap of 17%


There you have it: I'm extremely confident that consecrate uses a standard spell hit roll for every single tick of damage.
I'm also done with researching the ability since there seems to be no point to do so.
Having said that: gearing hit past the melee cap gives ABYSMAL returns per itemisation point, so it's really not something I'd recommend

All I see is the first parse is a 2% miss and the second and parse parse with no misses. I am not sure how to read WWS better to see something else.

The mitigated damage (which was the same all times) is due to being 3 levels less than the boss, and there is nothing to do about that.

Nice, my Twink is running without any tier-bonus and i hit also 5.4k dps.

Wow Web Stats

The World of Warcraft Armory

My wws was made without my back and ring2, so lower expertise and stats.
Until now i have gotten no chance to catch some tier-parts, because its a twink and it takes time, but i really ask myself how high will be the increase of my damage, when i see you hitting the same (you are not the only one) and arguing 4p-tier is best in slot.
I am still confused, because my twink is far away from best in slot and expertise cap.

DPS on Patch depends on a few different things, the RNG (how many procs does the RNG decide to give you), how good your raid dps is (a 2:30 and 2:50 kill make a noticeable difference), how many hits/dodges/resists the RNG decides, and when procs happen, do they happen with Bloodlust is up.

Also, skill comes into play, like do I use an ability nearly cooldown?

Patchwerk is a decent guess at dps, however due to the short nature of the fight, it should not be used to balance classes (see BM hunters for a good example at incorrect nerfing).

Satisfies me. Next released version of Bellator's will include spellhit based ticks of Consecration - I already have it implemented. Thanks for the time and effort at multiple levels of hit gear.

So is it correct to say that this kind of FCFS system (using DS and Cons as a splitter) is perfect for a static fight like patchwerk? And assuming a non-undead target, what would change, what does the term 'J, CS, Cons - delay' mean?


Besides these small communication difficulties I wonder if your math concering Cons > DS is correct, although we know now that 17% spellhit is necessary to avoid consecration tick misses (usually we are 7% - 10% hit away assuming raidbuffes, so this amount of potential damage is wasted). And there is another factor which is lowering our consecration dps - and to be fair our RV/Judgement/seal damage, too - which is the mitigated damaged (partial resists) when attacking a skull level mob. The physical DS component cannot be mitigated, only its seal and RV damage, but can be dodged (it should be correct to assume that a t7.5 ret paladin is close to hit cap, but sth away from the expertise cap). To take all this into consideration, I doubt that consecration is always the winner and that static numbers are the right way for modeling cons/DS damage, because these spells are so different from each other. Following these new cognitions that consecration can be resisted and miss, should not pull DS ahead?


Ideal rotations in an ideal world, yes. Raiding under a constant latency of 100 ms which should produce some unintentional clashes, is there a chance that another FCFS priority system exists, which will lower the impact of latency? Left's modeling script clarified how bad latency is for our DPS. It makes me wonder if one priority strategy is more resistant to latency than others and how things would look like when we imply a constant loss due latency to be realistic.

Essentially, what brought about the construction of J, CS, cons -delay is recognizing that when judgement is prioritised over crusader strike with a 7 second judgement cooldown, you will always end up getting the same ammount of crusader strikes as you get judgements.

Knowing this, and also considering that consecrate (with glyph) and divine storm both have a 10 second cooldown, the
application of either of these abilities at the 3 second mark following a judgement means that the next time you can (and will) use this ability is at the 13 second mark.
With global cooldown being 1.5 seconds this means that the judgement that would normally be cast at the 14 second mark gets pushed back.
It is with this in mind that the rotation of delaying CS to be used at the second available GCD slot following a judgement was constructed.

By making sure no 10-second cooldown ability is used at this position you can maintain a 21 second 3 judgement rotation, rather than the 21,5 second rotation you end up with while not adhering to this rule

The reason Exemplar recommends sticking with the standard FCFS J>CS>cons>DS during times when you will have a lower time spent attacking is this: when pushing back the application of CS in order to generate a "tighter" rotation, you are also in effect prioritising a lower DPS ability over a higher DPS one.

What this means is that until the 21 second rotation has gone on long enough to make up for a full global cooldown, there will be situations where your tighter rotation actually nets a loss of DPS.
Around 1 minute in, enough time has passed for the tighter rotation to gain enough ground so that it is equal or better than any 21,5 second rotation, but it takes around 2 minutes of DPS time to get to the point where it is ALWAYS better.

Over an infinite ammount of time, this rotation ends up giving you around 1,5% increase in DPS.
Currently there are no fights ingame where you will actually benefit to this extent from using the rotation, so it's mostly going to be a matter of personal preference.

When making the transition from a 21 second rotation without exo/HW to one utilising these abilities, the most beneficial path is actually placing those abilities in such a way that you will be able to maintain the 21 second rotation.
Within the 3 judgement rotations there are 2 available global cooldowns to place these abilities, meaning that you end up with the following effective ability cooldowns:

J - 7 secs, CS - 7 secs, cons - 10,5 secs, DS - 10,5 secs, Exo - 21 secs, Holy Wrath - 42 secs

While this might seem counter-intuitive, it actually provides around 1% DPS increase over letting the rotation go and using standard FCFS. Since 1% is a pretty small ammount, I'd only recommend trying it if you're absolutely sure about what you're doing.
Any WWS report claiming a higher DPS using this rotation should also be taken with a pinch of salt.
External conditions (such as in this case having 3 full reflection of torment procs during a 139 second DPS time) will always play a larger part on the DPS you end up achieving

Using the aforementioned priority rules, the rotation reproduces itself automatically should you lose it at any point due to movement or other delays.
It is also quite robust due to having a constant density of 4GCD per 7 seconds, allowing a full second per 4 abilities in delay before starting to fall apart upon itself.

Keep in mind also, that with 20% mob HP bringing about the addition of a very strong DPS ability to our arsenal, it becomes optimal to forego the 21-second rotation in favour of a standard FCFS J>HoW>cons>CS>DS>exo>Holy Wrath rotation


Exemplar is, however, completely correct in stating that consecrate (on a static fight without special mechanics that benefit DS) has a higher damage per application than divine storm (I'll admit to being wrong here, though I will continue to prioritise the way I do due to using the venture co libram)

It is also necessary to take into regard that when melee capped at 8% you actually have 10% spell hit.
Adding misery/improved faerie fire to the mix gives you an effective 4% consecrate miss rate versus bosses.
Assuming I understand the calculations correctly, this would mean that consecrate still pulls ahead even when counting in that miss rate (naturally there's also expertise to take into consideration with regards to divine storm)

It probably isn't a terrible time to re-roll. 1 to 80 doesn't take too long these days, and honestly how long would it take you to get well geared between 10 and 25 man raids? Only an option for those that aren't achievement junkies, of course.

With Human's bonuses (extra rep if any new rep is added that has useful items, free PvP trinket (can be useful in PvE) and 3 expertise with Mace/Sword), I wouldn't drop that for 1% hit.

Ignoring the benefit to others, comparing the expertise to the hit and you gain a lot of itemization points.

Trying to break the Judge/Crusader Strike lockstep requires different muscle memory. You have to be prepared and know when to not use the normal priority and switch to your lower priority cast. Mis-select even once and you have at the least lost any potential gain, more probably have a net loss over sticking with your normal priority.

While a sit and pewpew fight like Patchwerk you could squeek out an extra % or so by splitting, that's one fight in all of tier content. I'll admit, I'm human, if I tried to swap priority for one single fight, I'd fail.

Regarding latency proposing a better rotation - it's theoretically possible. But the thing to remember is that latency is an average, not a static. If your latency is displaying a nice round 150ms, that means over the last 10-30 seconds (I don't know how often Blizzard polls, averages, etc) you've averaged 150ms. At some times your ping could have been as low as 50ms and others 250. Trying to match a priority system which would somehow take advantage of this fact is next to impossible. I'm confident that the best 0 latency priority will lead to the most real-world priority for a given circumstance. If someone does the math and proves a better priority for latency which matches my own, I'll gladly copy you.

Divine Storm will always proc Seal of Blood. Crits will proc Righteous Vengeance. DS is mitigated by armour, Seal and RV are not. Consecration is 10 separate attacks, each which can miss, full, or partial resist.

I tested several levels of gear in Bellator's with the new Consecration modeling. The majority of the time Consecration beats Divine Storm. The only times DS won were if you had a weapon significantly better than the rest of your gear, or abnormally high levels of crit. Since DS scales directly with a weapon's lower/upper damage and Consecration does not, the abnormally good weapon would beat the coefficients of Consecration. Abnormally high crit again does not impact Consecration (it cannot crit), but will proc more RV.

There is one final time I'd put DS ahead of Consecration - Banka uses the libram that procs on DS. The gain makes natural sense to prioritize it earlier.

If your own gear is crit heavy, and it's quite possible this can occur in Ulduar, then DS could pull ahead of Consecration. Personally I'd need to gain around 4% crit and not drop any other stats for DS to pull ahead. This is around the same both solo or with raid buffs.

I leave it up to the public to test rotations in spreadsheet and rawr to see which is best for them.

In closing - I have entirely re-written Left's python code for a specific usage - namely to spit out effective cooldowns generated after 6 hrs of rotation of every possible Ulduar rotation (i.e. they all involve Exorcism, but HW is modeled both with and without). I'm going to replace the rotation mockup tab in the Bellator spreadsheet with a table of programatically derived effective cooldowns. You may then select your desired rotation from a drop-down and it will pick the proper cooldowns based on 4 piece yes/no and HW yes/no.

I would like to give my greatest appreciation to Left for designing and posting his FCFS python code. I'd never used python before, nor knew of easy tools. Feedback from sources such as he, Banka's Consecration testing, and many things Redcape tested back in beta help us revise and make things like my spreadsheet more accurate. Keep challenging pre-conceptions, but bring your math with you.

i'm able to wear 4pc T7 with 3496 AP, 32.36% crit, 216 hit (6.59%), and 19 expertise (4.75%), all unbuffed.

items i use to obtain +hit are:
[Spiked Titansteel Helm] (+21crit 3%critdmg, +16 STR)
[Valorous Redemption Shoulderplates] (+27 STR)
[Girdle of Chivalry] (+16 STR, +16 STR)
[Sabatons of Sudden Reprisal] (+27 STR, Icewalker enchant)
[Sphere of Red Dragon's Blood]

there are some times when i don't see one miss an entire boss fight. i'm a jewelcrafter and blacksmith and i gem every single slot available with +16 strength, and 3 +27 strength prismatics (no hit gems). Berserking on weapon, no other hit enchants on any gear except boots. highest DPS i've seen on patchwerk was 5500, fully flasked/foodbuffed and haste pot at 25%. hope this was helpful

Too many achievments on my Female pally now to reroll. I rerolled paladin once already from male paladin to human female paladin before PvE->PvP xfers had opened. And honestly the only reason I would roll draenei at this point would be looks.

Besides, I already have the hit Aura in raid, and the extra expertise is nice when your actually using a Mace or Sword, unfortunately the BiS weapon at the moment is an Axe.

Gentlemen,

I am a long time reader and first time poster of the wisdom provided in this thread. I was hoping you guys could provide me with some insight.

I have seen several comments like the one above and I cannot help but wonder what it is I am doing incorrectly.

Except for a blue helm, I feel like my gear is on par with many of those here who report being able to deliver 5K+ DPS on patchwerk, but I struggle to deliver BARELY over 4k, much less the 5.4k this guy is pulling.

I am using FCFS, with a priority give to Judgments, Consecration and Hammer of Wrath when its up.

Most Recent WOW Web Stats report: Wow Web Stats

Current Armory Profile: The World of Warcraft Armory

Any suggestions you might have would be greatly appreciated.

There is quite a large disparity between DPSing in PvP gear and PvE gear. If you're wearing your current profile's gear in raids, I would venture to guess that would be a major contributing factor -- outside of raid make-up, group buffs, length of fight, etc.

I am also wondering why your spec is 0/10/57? Why are you not using your final 4 talent points?

On the topic of patchwerk, I'm curious to know if anyone else has taken an early hateful to the face? I'm gun-shy about opening up at the start of a pull, even once he's in position, until a few seconds after because I've been pasted by a few of those. I figured it was worth mentioning.

I was wondering if anyone could give some input on gear or possible changes that I should or need to make in my current set-up.

My Armory


My WMO Reports

Current Rotation:

J>DS>CS (On opener ONLY)>Con
J>CS>DS>Con>Exo>HW (Assuming undead)

Glyphs:
Spiritual Attunment
Seal of Blood
Judgment

Edit: Yes I'm using the Sense Undead minor, but sometimes I forget to change tracking to it ><

I know there's a few slight improvements I can make (waiting on BoH before I change anything). But any advice would be neat.

Just make sure both offtanks (in 25-man that is) have gotten a hatefull before you move up close and you should be safe and then stay below all three tanks on threat.

Same here. Very careful on my first approach on Patchwerk. I ussually wait until all 3 tanks have at least 15-20k aggro. Have had very bad experiences here when first raiding naxx on WOTLK.