J>DS>CS (On opener ONLY)>Con
J>CS>DS>Con>Exo>HW (Assuming undead)
Glyphs:
Spiritual Attunment
Seal of Blood
Judgment
Edit: Yes I'm using the Sense Undead minor, but sometimes I forget to change tracking to it ><
I know there's a few slight improvements I can make (waiting on BoH before I change anything). But any advice would be neat.
Comments on your gear: Don´t use expertise or only critical gems. My advise is to use only 16 str gems except for 2 blue str/sta gems for meta requirements (21 crit meta gem) that you should place in whichever piece gives you better bonus. Also drop Mark of Norgannon trinket as soon as you get something else, it is almost useless for retadins. You can even drop some hit from your gear if you ussually have a draenei on your raid group.
Comments on rotation: Try this rotation
J>CS>Con>DS
J>CS>Con>DS>Exo>HW (Assuming undead)
Glyphs: Drop Spiritual Attunement and Seal of Blood glyphs. Pick consecration and crusader strike.
Rotations have been explained, how we should gem and enchant has been explained and optimal gear setups have been calculated several times in each of the threads.
A little research goes a long way and saves the discussions regarding mechanics being bogged down with 'Can you tell me what item I should go for next?' posts.
Regarding being gun-shy on Patchwerk - try opening with Consecration. If it pulls aggro, you need to have a serious tanking discussion in your guild.
Otherwise Consecration and an autoattack shouldn't pull threat even before the first hateful. This gives time for your tanks to intentionally generate threat, as well as a Hateful or two to hit increasing further. Then you can open up with the rest of your abilities in the priority you normally use.
Regarding being gun-shy on Patchwerk - try opening with Consecration. If it pulls aggro, you need to have a serious tanking discussion in your guild.
Otherwise Consecration and an autoattack shouldn't pull threat even before the first hateful. This gives time for your tanks to intentionally generate threat, as well as a Hateful or two to hit increasing further. Then you can open up with the rest of your abilities in the priority you normally use.
This depends on your tanks. We use feral offtanks, and on occasion if they miss a Mangle or something, one of the melee will get faceplanted if they start even autoattacking too early (typically the ret paladin who scores a big white crit on his opening swing). I typically just tell my DPS to wait for the DPS GO signal from me before starting, and watch for the first hateful to go off.
Comments on your gear: Don´t use expertise or only critical gems. My advise is to use only 16 str gems except for 2 blue str/sta gems for meta requirements (21 crit meta gem) that you should place in whichever piece gives you better bonus. Also drop Mark of Norgannon trinket as soon as you get something else, it is almost useless for retadins. You can even drop some hit from your gear if you ussually have a draenei on your raid group.
Comments on rotation: Try this rotation
J>CS>Con>DS
J>CS>Con>DS>Exo>HW (Assuming undead)
Glyphs: Drop Spiritual Attunement and Seal of Blood glyphs. Pick consecration and crusader strike.
I've noticed a few people mentioning the 2 blue gems required for the chaotic skyflare and I thought I'd mention that Chaotic Skyflare is only a better meta selection if you are a JC. RED requires 1 gem of each color which can be satisfied by an Enchanted Tear, leaving you with an extra slot for a +16 str gem.
As for the T7.5 issue regarding LotH or Obsidian Greathlem, etc., keep in mind that while hit cap is clearly not required for max dps, some optimized gear sets bring hit as low as 120, which I'd have to assume would be hurting your output, or at the very least, your mana regen. I'd personally recommend using the Frosted Adroit Handguards as your non-set piece with LotH as your second choice if your hit is uncomfortably low.
First off, 4 piece T7.25 is best to use because Judgements hit so hard. I have 6% hit with 4 Piece from 25-mans and do fine (I think 5400 is my best on Patch).
Also, around 20% of our damage can never miss (Cons and Righteous Vengeance) and Strength is really good to stack when we get 25% extra strength.
If you aren't a Warrior anymore, how about updating your profile?
I've been getting more positive results w/o 4pce. If you think about it, it's only really better if you don't outgear the content you are in (longer fights). Once you hit that point and fights take on average 2:30 - 3:00 minutes to do then that set bonus starts to become less significant. It even shows it to be like this on rawr.
As always, been tweaking the Bellator spreadsheet. Expect another release sometime this week.
Using a re-write of Left's python script to model every priority possibility and putting this in a nice, clean table. It's a sight prettier than the Rotation Mockup worksheet and the hand-done work involved. Also implementing 3.0.9 vs. 3.1 prospective changes - easily reversible in case the rough draft provided to us does not go live. And the always continuing bug fixes.
The ability to use Exorcism on everything will change things. Exo auto-critting on Undead/Demons also makes a big change - potentially rotation changing. If it does make it live as a guaranteed crit, Exorcism becomes a very large hit when cast on Undead/Demons. Just behind Judgement as large burst damage, though still lower DPS than other abilities due to the longer cooldown.
Going to try to implement a button to run through every potential priority. If I get this functional then the spreadsheet can take your gear, what you're fighting, and spit back your optimal prioritization. It'll save testing every possible rotation choice manually, and may come up with specific results for YOUR gear that do not match the priorities used by the majority of every other Ret Paladin based on their gear.
Rotations have been explained, how we should gem and enchant has been explained and optimal gear setups have been calculated several times in each of the threads.
A little research goes a long way and saves the discussions regarding mechanics being bogged down with 'Can you tell me what item I should go for next?' posts.
Because personal preference and opinions don't exist.
Getting feedback from other Ret Paladins, to me anyway, is more valuable than spreadsheets.
Because personal preference and opinions don't exist.
Typically when it comes to gear and gem and enchant choices, no, they don't. Why? Because you can quantify the DPS differences. It's simple mathematics - there is one correct answer.
I have a question regarding weapon selection, and whether or not the itemisation on the rest of your gear should bias your choice one way or another.
The established ranking for weapons available is, from best to worst: Betrayer, Jawbone, Cryptfiend's, Death's Bite.
I currently have Death's Bite, which gets me near the hit cap (6,43%, or 7.43% with a Draenei), with decent expertise from the rest of my gear (15, or 3.75% less chance to be dodged).
If I were to switch Death's Bite for, say, Jawbone, I would gain a large amount of expertise (I believe it would actually put me over cap, being a Dwarf as well), and increased damage range, at the cost of 1.9% hit and 2% crit.
Suddenly, I'm hitting harder, but critting less, and my Hit chance has dropped by 1.9%. I've regained that and then some by eliminating dodges for most of my attacks, but Judgement now has a 1.9% higher chance to miss.
It could be argued that I could then switch out some expertise gear for more Hit. But with the current gear setup, would replacing the Bite still be the right choice?
The best way to figure it out is to plug in your gear into a spreadsheet and see where it ranks the different weapons. I know, for example, that under some gear setups, Cryptfiend's Bite is superior to Jawbone, and for others, Cryptfiend's can even rank below Death's Bite.
The best way to figure it out is to plug in your gear into a spreadsheet and see where it ranks the different weapons.
Which are recommended? I've entered my stats into maxdps and checked the weapon comparison, and it still seems to list them as above (with the exception that maxdps values Inevitable Defeat as a 4 dps upgrade to the Bite). I'd like to check another spreadsheet as well to comfirm.
Which are recommended? I've entered my stats into maxdps
Maxdps is never the right answer.
Redcape's spreadsheet (he has a thread here) and Rawr (covers lots of classes and specs) are good choices to compare items. I personally prefer Rawr because it is user friendly.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
I've been getting more positive results w/o 4pce. If you think about it, it's only really better if you don't outgear the content you are in (longer fights). Once you hit that point and fights take on average 2:30 - 3:00 minutes to do then that set bonus starts to become less significant. It even shows it to be like this on rawr.
These posts are getting really old. Please read through the thread before posting.
Saying that the 4pc bonus is any less or more valuable due to fight length is something of a ridiculous claim. If one is wearing comparable gear and utilizing the 4pc bonus, that bonus actually becomes more beneficial over time. With Judgment being our highest-damage dealing ability, the massively increased crit rate on Judgment, Righteous Vengeance, not to mention mana regen: Judgment is one of our best abilities now. Additional mana regen from the decreased CD allows for more free-use of our abilities without as much concern about mana or wasting a GCD on Divine Plea.
While you may be experiencing better returns on what you're currently wearing, this is not the place to come and start using platitudes, anecdotal evidence, and boasting unsupported claims.
Also: Rawr, as of v2.1.9, has no function or option that encompasses the damage/set bonus from having 4pc T7.
I certainly understand that you are happy about high DPS numbers. But we have had the discussion on how critical streaks during AW uptime and short fights may influence overall DPS without providing any meaningful results.
However, both of your WWS reports may be helpful for players who constantly ask about whether Ret paladins can do competitive DPS or where they should be in the DPS meters. It is quite a pleasure to see Ret paladins perform so well. Do not be afraid that only best-in-slot geared Betrayer wielders can reach these numbers, it is most definitely possible with just Naxx10 equip.
These posts are getting really old. Please read through the thread before posting.
Saying that the 4pc bonus is any less or more valuable due to fight length is something of a ridiculous claim. If one is wearing comparable gear and utilizing the 4pc bonus, that bonus actually becomes more beneficial over time. With Judgment being our highest-damage dealing ability, the massively increased crit rate on Judgment, Righteous Vengeance, not to mention mana regen: Judgment is one of our best abilities now. Additional mana regen from the decreased CD allows for more free-use of our abilities without as much concern about mana or wasting a GCD on Divine Plea.
While you may be experiencing better returns on what you're currently wearing, this is not the place to come and start using platitudes, anecdotal evidence, and boasting unsupported claims.
Also: Rawr, as of v2.1.9, has no function or option that encompasses the damage/set bonus from having 4pc T7.
Bring hard evidence to support your claims.
I'm pretty sure you either completely misread or misunderstood my post, and I'm pretty sure I understand how my class's skills work and incorporate into my damage. It appears that rawr does recognize the 4pce as it displays the 4 pieces of t7.5 gear equipped as being BiS...
It appears that rawr does recognize the 4pce as it displays the 4 pieces of t7.5 gear equipped as being BiS...
Rawr doesn't know about the 1 second cooldown of Judgements. Also, only the Shoulders are BiS (ignoring set bonuses), but it turns out the set bonuses are good.
The reason why Rawr doesn't have the 1 sec off Judgement is the old Ret module developer plays a DK now, so no one is working changing the module much since 3.0. There were bug fixes added since then though, so it is a good tool for now.
However, once Exorcism is usable on all targets and potential new set bonuses may make Rawr outdated unless someone changes the module.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
The reason why Rawr doesn't have the 1 sec off Judgement is the old Ret module developer plays a DK now, so no one is working changing the module much since 3.0. There were bug fixes added since then though, so it is a good tool for now.
However, once Exorcism is usable on all targets and potential new set bonuses may make Rawr outdated unless someone changes the module.
Actually, someone is maintaining the Ret module. Ermad, a guildy of mine who works on the Healadin and Protadin modules, has just made that update (as well as a few other 3.0/3.0.8 changes I didn't have to update) and you should see them in the next release. I may be picking up Retribution again full-time in the near future, as I may be returning to the ret pally world. Now back to catching up on Ret theorycraft...
Formally Xyrm/Zurm, the Ret Pally. Now playing my rogue, Zyrm, more casually with RL friends.
02/17/09, 5:48 AM
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