I'm not so sure that HoW is higher priority than Judement below 20%, I definitely put it J > (20% HoW) > Cons > CS > DS > Exo > HW

My hammers rarely hit higher than my judgements, and the same goes with the crits, HoW Gets +50% Crit, but Judgement already has half of that crit bonus.

ie, 40% crit +50% = 90% for Hammers, +25% = 65% for Judgements.

I haven't done any testing and I would like to do so, but I get the feeling that your still better off kicking into your Judgement cooldown first even below 20% (Don't forget RV doesn't proc off HoW crits as well)

ie. 65% crits doing %judgebasecritsize%+40% vs 90% crits doing %hammerbasecritsize%
Seems like my judgement crits are far bigger even without counting for RV.

I was also looking at CS vs DS for this same reason (especially as our crit continues to rise up) At the moment i always CS over DS, but isn't DS stronger considerign 2pc + RV?

More investigation required clearly, I haven't had much time to play around lately but should have some tonight.
will post my findings if I'm not beaten to it.

((Sorry for the scattered thoughts post, you guys are all so mechanical, and I come in 'feeling x' and 'seeming like y'))

Actually, now that you mention it, last night on Patch, I was checking out all the debuffs while smashing my keyboard and noticed JoW wasn't up on him, even though I hit it every 8 seconds. The next time I hit it, sure enough, my little blue hammery icon popped up. If that was the case, and I'm hitting it when it's coming off CD, it meanst at least 2 in a row didn't do anything. I know for sure I didn't have any misses because I have 313 hit. I'll try and pay more attention to it tonight to see if it happens as well.

My DPS was so bad last night, For the first time in quite some time my melee damage was higher then judgment damage. I also noticed that the Librams are not procing or it seems they are not at all. I figured I would do some testing so I went and beat on a dummy for about an hour trying different gear sets that were resulting in 1 min burst DPS of anywhere from 3200-3600.

Last night in those same gear sets I was lucky to hit 2600 for that 1 min burst test so yes something is definitely wrong and judgments are not firing properly. This patch fouled something up and I knew it when I felt like I was struggling on Razuvious.

I'm not entirely sure this is static across the board. At least from my experience my Judgments were always hitting even with being almost 2% under cap (RNG was in my favor last night). I hit about 5200 DPS on the fight, which was about 300 DPS higher than normal for me. I'd post my WWS for you to compare, but it doesn't seem to be working right now

Was done over approx 21m15sec (was timed on my phone, so there is about 1 second delay on starting my timer :x)

I was using Seal of Light, and Judgement of Light only. Melee attacks were on to prove the time spent attacking pretty much.
(3.04*attacks/60)

so it looks to me like, I attempted ((21*60)+15)/8=159~ and only registered 143 (~90%) which isn't too bad, but the sample size is relatively small and results are bound to be streaky. I was going to do 30 minutes but got lazy i guess.

Yes, I did try to use Justice, I also tried to alternate Light, Wisdom and Justice, but doesn't seem to be any different.

Also, I am pretty sure the bug appears way more often during raids that once every 10 Judgements as i see on the test made on dummy. Last time when this bug was on live, I remember that being in a raid increased the frequency of failed Judgements (probably because of number of debuffs on the boss, not sure though).

Maybe someone who has access on US forums can report it? I did it on European ones, but most likely won't help much. I would advise to make a post both on Damage dealing section and the Bug report forums and try to keep it bumped for a while until they acknowledge it.

regarding the rotation discussion from yesterday...

I did some calculations with real raid dmg values of high ranked WWS stats and it seems that the dmg values from especially DS is higher then assumed, as well as CS is lower then assumed.

When using the principle of highest dmg (which seems to be the best, everytime. Is also did some rotation calculations...) first I come to this priorities:

J > DS > HoW > Cons > CS > Exo > HW

DS seems to be really strong, because of the 3 dmg compontents (physical attack [main spell], seal of martyr proc, rightouse vengance proc)

as base for this calculations I used these 2 raid situations:
http://wowwebstats.com/2kzh3mlr3ywgs...0e08#abilities
WWS Loading...

At these raid situations (incl. Raid buffs, crits, special equip ...) the average dmg values of each spell are (everything without selfdmg): (I lowered the dmg of the real spells a little bit, because of the higher miss chance)

judgement of the martyr 10693
Crusader Strike 4504
Divine Storm 5982
Consecration 5811 (10ticks)
Exorcism 3640
Holy Wrath 2682
Hammer of Wrath 5417

Can anyone confirm these results? Especially with other well equiped raid situations?

I've been having great success going:

J > (HoW at 20%) > Cons > CS > DS > Exo > HW

Granted, I'm having no problems with missing Judgments. As such, I've milked more person DPS out of this rotation than any other I've tried.

Here's a WWS based on using this rotation: http://wowwebstats.com/f5bl5iwhffdfc
And my armory link to compare gear sets: The World of Warcraft Armory

Please consider that CS is on a much shorter cooldown than Divine Storm or Consecration. For an optimal damage cycle, we are looking on "highest DPS first", not "highest damage per cast". So Crusader Strike is clearly the winner, especially when thinking of the two CS librams available.
There is really no need to discuss this back and forth, please read the statement from Avitus to FCFS on the very first page in this thread.

Here is another theory: Heart of the Crusader interference with Master Poisoner? I know, for instance, that when a warrior has Vigilance on me I am unable to rebuff myself with Blessing of Sanctuary. I wonder if a similar effect could be occuring here, where a rogue applying Master Poisoner to a target is preventing Heart of the Crusader from landing, and as a buggy result, also dropping the entire judgement.

Does anyone in your raid use Master Poisoner? Or, alternatively, is there another debuff that might conflict in a similar way?

Of course, that theory doesn't explain inconsistent results on a target dummy.

Here's an interesting one. Using the numbers from Redcapes dps posted in the PAWN thread input into wowhead's weight scaler (NOT their default ret pally numbers), I am seeing Spiked Titansteel being ranked approx. 2% above Obsidian Greathelm. The numbers would change oh so slightly as I would be using an Enchanted Tear in the socket, but I don't see it being a large margin, as it would actually improve spiked's ranking. Is anyone else getting numbers anywhere near there?

Spiked Titansteel Helm 46.40
Obsidian Greathelm 45.86

For further information: By far the biggest margin in difference is showing in the glove slot, where Frosted Androit is ranked 38.66 (even crude discolored is at 35.76) while valor is 27.58.