I, too, have worried about this. I even made a thread on the Beta forums detailing how JoB recoil might get out of hand come later raid tiers. We're currently hitting 15k+ Judgements now, just imagine what they'd be if [Betrayer of Humanity] was a 3.8 speed weapon? It's something that needs to be addressed before we become too much of a liability.

Anyway, I've lightly discussed this with my guildies and I told them I'd sooner pull myself out of the raid on a progression fight than swap to a sub par Seal because, chances are, nearly anyone could outDPS a Paladin at that point.

On a lighter note, I do love Seal of Blood...

20:24'35.046 Sartharion #8 melee swing hits Arrent for 13721 Physical.
20:24'35.375 Arrent Seal of Blood hits Arrent for 69 Holy.
20:24'35.781 Arrent died.

21:10'06.796 Onyx Sanctum Guardian #7 melee swing hits Arrent for 10310 Physical.
21:10'07.000 Arrent Seal of Blood hits Arrent for 154 Holy.
21:10'07.359 Arrent died.

Judgement of Blood and Command are both modified by weapon damage. A slower weapon makes for a higher damage range, which does, directly, increase Judgement damage.

Concerning AoE damage in our single-target rotation, I've read the idea (on these boards even iirc) of putting Cons and Exorcism on a shared CD, adding a dot effect to Exorcism's initial damage.

Would atleast take care of 1 of our CC breakers, while also reducing mana cost on single target fights.

That would decrease our current DPS on undead (not crippling, but a noticeable decrease), when GC has said that the damage that ret is doing in raids now (on undead) is at the level where they want ret doing dps later (on non-undead).

DS and consecration breaking CC really shouldn't be an issue. CC as a general rule is only used on trash, and if your CCers are competent then CCed mobs will be far from those that are being tanked anyway. Blizzard very rarely designs boss encounters that allow CC at all, and even in those where it's possible, it's usually not completely necessary (think M'uru door adds).

If our biggest concern in Ulduar turns out to be dps on trash, then we're in pretty good shape.

It would be interesting to see how they handle our mana regen when they change SA and Exorcism.
Will they buff Glyph of Blood, which is arguably the worst glyph in the game?
Will they add some synergy into our talents for Exorcism? I'd love to see Righteous Vengeance also proc off Exorcism criticals. It would also give more incentive to get Hit rating - gemming for Strength in every socket will get boring eventually.

Adding Righteous Vengeance procs on Exorcism would not be enough incentive to gem for hit. Keep in mind that hit rating for spells is more powerful than hit rating for melee. While my 240 hit rating is only 7.32% for melee, the same 240 is 9.15% for spells (then add in the 3% you'd get for Misery). In order for it to be worth it to not gem for strength, other stats would have to be buffed.

Patchwerk is one of the few bosses that does not require much raid-healing. Should bosses be brought more in line with Patchwerk, where there is little-to-no AoE/raid damage, you will find that mana will become even more of a concern. Additionally, the only reason you're not hurting for mana on those other AoE fights is due to Spiritual Attunement: which is being altered.

Mana and our sustainability, once again, (see the old Ret thread) is not an "eventual concern," sadly. It's an immediate concern.

Bear with me here, been reading this site a long time, never posted before. :p

I've seen some mention of this here and was wondering if anyone had confirmed it. I've seen dramatically reduced damage since 3.0.8 went out and I'm not sure of the reasons why. In our Naxx-10 last week I usually do ~4k on Patch, but that time I did 2900. At the time I thought it might be because our DK was not there and I did not get abom's might or horn of winter.

After the raid I started digging through recount and found that not only were my judgements a much smaller portion of my dmg than they should have been, but they weren't hitting as hard as they should either. Recount counted my highest judgement that raid as ~8900. With all the "stars aligned" (mirror proc, greatness proc, AW etc.) my judgements crit in the 12-13k area.

Have I been having really bad luck with the RNG? or maybe this ghosting bug is tied somehow to the procs of trinkets, hence my lack higher crits in recount? Has anyone else had the damage issue along with the ghosting?

Since the topic of mana regen and efficiency came up I'd like to pitch in my 2cents.

I remember I used to have mana problems, especially on patchwrek. I'd resort to using a mana pot and while keeping up divine plea on cooldown I would still have mana issue - we are going all out here using every ability we can. It was never that big of a deal because all i needed to do was to back up slightly into the green slime (the mana slime) and the healers would give me back mana.

I decided I would give 4 piece a shot since I did not do my research on best paladin pieces I figured a straight upgrade from Heroe's wouldn't be too bad of an idea. After trying out 4piece bonus all my mana problems where gone. In fact, I could start a fight with half mana or 25% mana and regen to nearly 100% mana without potting.

I think this set bonus helps a lot with dps - provided that the offset pieces don't give a higher dps boost than the extra mana. I think also 4 piece helps the raid more since they will get more replenishments. I'd say if there is more than 1 ret paladin in the raid have at least 1 with 4 piece since ret paladin dps is only close to being competitive compared to that of rogues, dks or warriors. We will always be lower than any of those classes if they are equally geared and skilled as the person playing the ret paladin.

For those who are having problems/ want to know how to prepare for mana problems I have farmed some items which I am sure you may find helpful as well

Each of these items uses NO GCD and takes your healthstone cooldown meaning they can in some cases get you just enough mana to get by to make to your next judgement/divine plea/arcane torrent cooldown to refil your mana and still let you chug a dps pot.

Night Dragon's Breath(farmed in Felwood restores about 500 mana no gcd with a 2 min icd)
Demonic/Dark rune( farmed in felwood/scholo 15 min cd take ur HS cd of 2 mins and no GCD penalty)
Runes were nerfed but it still is the most mana back around 1000 or so so use these first easy to farm too can get while you farm night Draon'g breath

The item Lea of Lillies can spawn one lilly root which refils about 500 mana just like Night Dragon's breath above but it's only 1 per hour but free

My favorite and one I am saving for a riany day has 3 charges from a quest in EPL

Tea with Sugar (restores over 1,000 mana and health 2 min cool down does not interfere with GCD)

I farmed all of these items in case I run out of mana in future progression not currently having any issue

Was able to test them out in Naxx 10 man cause our pally tank was judging light instead of wisdom like he was assigned and it kept me from going oom just long enough for my Divine Plea and Arcane torrent cool downs Fight last a little under 3 mins so only got to use one of these 1 time but in longer fights were we are not taking an excessive amount of dmg to proc extra SA heals will prolly come in handy.

Just for fun I farmed a stack of Strat holy water to use in the rare times I have no moves ready to use in my FCFS rotation small dmg boost but fun and who knows maybe someday it will come in handy

I may be thinking too far into this but I had read that the mechanical Yeti in Winterspring quest scales with your level all the way to 80 so I farmed him too figured it cant hurt

I know the Yeti and strat holy water may be crazy but the mana regen ones are actually very useful and worth farming. I often finish a full night of raids with the orginal healtstone I picked up at the first pull and these items allow that cooldown to put to DPS increasing usage. Of course it is not worth it to use these items in fights where you may be in danger of dying without a hs so use judgement