What is the best Ret rotation?
right now i am using judgment of wisdom,consecration,crusader strike,Divine storm repeat
is that right?

The Retribution Paladin Thread (Wrath/3.0)

Your question is answered about halfway down the very first page of this thread. Please put at least a tiny bit of effort to find the answer to your question before you post... we try to keep the thread as lean as possible and these posts don't help. (and neither does this post I understand... so feel free to deleate both of ours)

Yes, RV is definitely bugged or something on the PTR.

Total damage from Kologarn (last attempt): 352783, 4572dps
Max Judgement crit: 11270
Max RV tick: 303


lol?

I've just read through the last three pages which were posted since the recent ptr changes. There is a profound negativity in many/most of them, and I'd like to emphasize three points in light of this.

1. If you ask the community what is wrong with paladins the vast majority will cite holy as a spec/role with almost no Achilles heel in PvP and it seems to me Bliz is rightly concerned most with rearranging the holy and ret tree so holy can't abuse the 37/0/34 build the way they are now. If they can successfully address that issue then they can devote their attention to other things, so my main point is we probably need to be patient. I remember how mad I was pre-WotLK because we were the last class to get our changes announced, but they ended up being great.

2: They have reverted some of ret's damage nerf on the PTR, but they were mainly fixes that result in more burst dps so people are very concerned that they will not stick. But, Whether you find the change to lack imagination and/or be incomplete or not, or of the wrong type at least this is a proper step, a dps boost. On a side note I agree that my 80 ret paladin isn't terribly more complicated to play most of the time than my level 10 hunter and that a fix in that regard is desirable and to get an actual dps ability added would be great, but I think Bliz considers that to be exorcism. The point someone made that it is difficult to distinguish a skilled paladin is really important, we're a five button class 95% of the time, one is as good as another, whereas i can often tell a good PvP rogue from a bad one fairly easily, for example. Hopefully the t3 prot talent is a step toward that sort of thing as well.

3: Finally, I really question that ret needs a burst nerf in PvP. The fact is that nobody likes bursty classes in PvP so there will always be QQ. I know I absolutely hate what happens to me if I'm caught in the open by a hunter right now. Explosive shot ticking for 2.5k, TNT procs, 6k kill shots, it is nuts. But the resilience that is out there now makes it very difficult for ret to kill a healer and this is going to get more and more difficult as people stack even more resil, and if we are to continue to function without interrupts, a healing debuff, or a distance closer then we need burst to be competitive, and I think the change to sanctified seals is appropriate given how difficult it is for us to kill say, a fully geared resto shaman atm.

So to sum up I would say that looking down the road ret will need a burst burst buff given the way things are shifting, and I'm not that concerned that these changes will be thrown 'to the ground' and I just hope that the Devs can mark some things off their to do list and now deal with our loss of sustained DPS in a meaningful way. I'm definitely an optimist, I know, but lets not get too upset just yet.

PvP

Linds,

There's a huge difference between a bad ret paladin <2k and a good one. They might all know how to damage, but the reason Ret is a strong spec in pvp is their support capabilities.

The majority of classes struggle killing a healer 1v1*. Arena isn't 1v1, so this really shouldn't be an issue. Yes, occasionally you will have to 1v1 a healer, but if you simply swap to seal of wisdom they can never win, whereas all you have to do is roll dice like a champ once.

Ret probably needs a burst nerf. I can kill x class with 800-1k resilience in 3 globals if I crit everything.

*Most dps classes have trouble with at least 2 out of 4 of the healing classes. I can be more specific if needed, but it's fairly obvious.

PvE

With ArPen being buffed, and the fact that the stat scales exponentially, is Grim Toll potentially a top trinket?

What's our current ratio of physical to holy damage?

I don't have numbers, but my feeling is that if ArPen ever becomes good enough for paladins to chase, it's going be absolutely insane for warriors and rogues, and will get nerfed back down.

Anyone else see this?

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> 3.1.0 Patch Notes - Updated 3/6/09

Assuming mana isn't an issue, which it won't be for better gear, The flask wins hands down.

The flask is worth 180 AP

The +50 Str elixir is worth 126.5 AP (assumes Kings and Divine Str are multiplicative, may be wrong)

Then you would have to look into how many extra consecrates or exorcisms you could fit in should you benefit from more mana regen. If you do decide to take a guardian elixir to boost mana regen then you should use [Elixir of Mighty Thoughts] as it gives more mana regen for a ret paladin and gives a little spell crit for exorcism.

And incase you're wondering, +40 str food is the best dps food for you although a [Fish Feast] is a close second.

Since WoW 3.0, there's no point taking anything except a 180AP Flask.


Nordhoff, yes we've seen this and people have briefly commented on it the last few pages. It's not implemented on PTR yet however.

They're probably holding it back until they did some internal testing.
That said, if they don't have a more accurate simulation than we do, they're doing it wrong.

15% extra exorcism and crusader damage sounds pretty decent buff wise. Assuming that mana regen is reasonable, I'd be interested in utilising the the exorcism glyph over the HoW one.

The ratio sits around 60:40 to 65:35, depending on crits, with Holy damage being the majority. Armor Penetration will never be as good for Paladins as nearly any other physical DPS class, except maybe Survival Hunters.

Definitely not working how it is supposed to

So today instead of using a dummy I went and tested out on some Lvl 79 Mobs here are the results of one test of many:

Judgement hit for 5733

so we do 5733 x .3 = 1719.9 / 4 = 429.975

my ticks were as follows

69 (275 resisted) = 344
34 (310 resisted) = 344
69 (275 resisted) = 344
138 (206 resisted) = 344

sum of ticks resisted = 310
sum of ticks unresisted = 1376

then we do 1719.9 - 1376 = 343.9
still doesn't equal 30% and looks to be off by about one tick.

Also was reading on PTR forums that it seems the higher the crit the more the resist is affecting the ticks.

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> [Bug] Righteous Vegeance Not Scaling Properly

It's actually terrible for pve (~1.5% total damage increase) and potentially unhealthy for pvp balance - on the last ptr build without this change I was already critting for 7-8k with exorcism. They claim to read these forums but it sure seems like whoever does isn't in the design loop... we need RV to be back where it is now or possibly to trigger on all criticals, as well as the mob-type requirement removed from crusade in order to get back where we are now (or at least close). I (and many others) can also foresee mana issues later with the impending loss of our 4pc T7 and supposed SA nerf, which is still not implemented; with divine plea going back to dispellable again (maybe), now would be an excellent time to increase JotW to 20%, for the sake of both pve and pvp balance.

Regarding divine sacrifice, it can be dangerous enough right now to use HoSac on a tank during +3 for example... who on earth would we want to take ~8000 dtps? Even a protection paladin would be foolish to use it while tanking, and if he isn't tanking he's dualspecced holy or ret... 11pt protection should really have been a gap closer/snare/melee interrupt Still holding out on the "paladin ptr build" but with things like shattering throw on the table we'd like it sooner rather than later (so that we can actually test things and not have blatantly over/underpowered stuff go live and then hotfixed).

I've looked around the thread all over and still can't seem to find the answer I was looking for, I know the topic of hit rating was brought up many times throughout the thread, and how with the gear in its current state always being hit capped would mean sacrificing many superior stats, thus hit cap wasn't ALWAYS worth it in face of a superior stats. However, I know there must be some level that is kind of the cut off point, as in when your hit rating is TOO low no matter how many stats your getting. So, my question is, does that cut off point exist and if so where? At what point can your hit rating be just too low to be acceptable.

Reason I'm asking is because I'm trying to decide between two trinkets to wear, one is this

Meteorite Whetstone:
Meteorite Whetstone - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

and

Sphere of Red Dragons Blood:
Sphere of Red Dragon's Blood - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft




With the sphere i get a hit rating of 271, 8 above the hit cap, but of course lose a lot of crit (1.61%) and a fairly nice proc. If I use the sphere i sacrifice stats for a nice chunk of hit, without it i drop to 216hit, is it worth the sacrifice in crit and proc to have my hit completely capped? Or is that much hit not enough to make up for the crit increase you could receive?

Never go near or over the hit cap, you do not need it ! is like the 3000 time it got written in this forum.
Use redcape calculation spreadsheet or rawr to get the better item composition for you, just remember to check the 4t7 bonus because is always better over all the rest, so always wear 4 piece t7 and change the rest of the gear on what you need most.

There is nothing wrong with being hit-capped, Gouldukats post sounds a bit too negative.
The answer isn't really hard to find, page 1, post 1:

So yes, use the spreadsheets to take whatever is mathematically superior, and don't worry if the result means not being capped.

I've been following this thread for a really long time , missed some parts in the long run cause there are way too many posts but still trying to keep on track , never posted before thou.

My problem like lots of other ppl is the hit problem. I know most people suggest having hit at around 5-6% which is what I was doing until now. Lately , suprisingly , I have been really lucky with loot. I got my razuvious belt after a REALLY REALLY long waiting time, and my obsidian greathelm from Sartharion . My problem is my hit is way-way-way-way low. I dont know what to use yet, I am not gonna gem for hit thats for sure , but atm Im still using my Spiked Titansteel Helmet for the 60 hit.

My hit in raiding gear is less than 100 , which to be honest , I think sucks. The problem is any spreadsheet I have followed still advices me to dump hit , not gem for hit , not use hit trinket and shows hit items less dps-worthy than flat out str/expertise items. I ve input all my buffs there carefully and still , rawr says playing with 55 hit is gonna get me more dps than what I am currently doing or was doing with 5% hit. I am kind of confused, tried to do some testing of my own with my dps in Naxx and stuff but our WWS post raider is lately slacking and its very hard to see stuff on recount , since you have to got a big memory and such :P

The only hit items I have on me at the moment is the valorous shoulders and the titansteel helm , along with icewalker gives me a 115 hit rating from which Ill lose 60 (equiping my new helm). I also have a spare grim toll which I think of using but still that doesnt quite cut it as I hate eating hit food instead of 40 str food so I am not sure if rawr or the spreadsheets are correct.

Would like advice , thanks

The only potential issue from going too low on Hit is the possibility of missing multiple Judgements in a row, and thus going OOM.

Practically speaking, Divine Plea, mana pots, and a self-LoH could allow you to recover from bad luck of that sort anyway.

technically even with 0 hit only 8% of your attacks will miss, as in out of 100 judgements, about 8 will miss. Thus the dmg increase from losing the hit and gaining other dps stat are higher to makeup for the 8 that would of hit (with a gearset with less dps stats) outweighs gemming/gearing for hit.

I have raided with 140~ hit (add a draenei) and still fare pretty decently. So it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

No technically you're rolling each time you strike and you have an 8% chance to miss every time you attack.

The answer is no, there is no minimum below which you never want to go. It's highly unlikely, however, that you'll have 0 hit in your optimal gear set as hit is our 2nd strongest stat after Str/AP.

It still means overall on a given battle of decent length, ~8% of your attacks will miss. It will obviously seem more or less on fast battles like Patchwerk, but on average you will miss 8% of the time.