Ok I thought that's the gem I have in there...the Relentless Earthsiege Diamond. So if I put that in the blue head I keep my socket bonus there then change all the rest to bolds...I'll give that a try. Once I get my JC up I can switch to the Chaotic.
Ok I thought that's the gem I have in there...the Relentless Earthsiege Diamond. So if I put that in the blue head I keep my socket bonus there then change all the rest to bolds...I'll give that a try.
Yup. Enchanted Tear in the helm for the 8 crit bonus/meta req, every other gem +16 str.
Jawbone vs Betrayer for a dwarf paladin is already pretty close, given that you can use the expertise. And at least in my BiS setup with Obsidian helm I'm at 20 expertise with BoH and 25 with the mace. Now what do you think about 3.1 and haste getting 30% more value and the huge amount of haste on Jawbone? Will it pull ahead again like it did when we had the weightstones bug?
And to add the most recent change to manaregeneration:
Originally Posted by Arthaal
A few reasons JotW could be bumbed soon:
1) Stormstrike grants 20% mana back on a similar cooldown.
2) IoL moving to tier 10 effectively destroys 37/0/34 builds.
3) Designers wish to lessen the impact of SA on the mana regen of both retribution and holy paladins.
4) Addition of exorcism as a main component of our rotation with the 3.1 changes (+15% damage from talents, +20% from glyphs, useable on all targets, holy damage -> probably end up 3rd in our priority list)
5) Blessing of Wisdom and Mana Spring Totem are not going to stack any longer.
Blessing of Wisdom & Mana Spring Totem change
Quote from: Eyonix (Source)
We are making a change to these spells so that their benefits are exclusive in patch 3.1.0. The buffs will be equivalent, but will no longer stack. Mana Spring will affect the entire raid instead of just the shaman’s party. We felt that both paladins and shamans brought too many unique buffs to a group. Additionally, we have been trying to tone down mana regeneration in large groups, and were concerned raids would feel the need to stack paladins or especially shaman to have enough Mana Spring totems. We have also been trying to get more benefits out of the party and into the raid, and Mana Spring previously was still a party only buff. With this change, if there is only one paladin, he or she can bring Blessing of Kings while the shaman offers Mana Spring. If there are two paladins and the second offers Blessing of Wisdom, then the shaman can offer healing or cleansing with their water totem instead.
The BoW->Mana Spring tweak is interesting. Mana Spring is 42.5 mp5 talented. BoW is 109.2 mp5 talented.
Either Mana Spring gets buffed (most likely) or BoW gets nerfed (to BC levels?!?). Hoping for the best, this is a buff for 5/10man raiding. Even with 2 paladins in a 5 or 10man you could get Kings and Might or Sanctuary (3% less damage never hurts). One paladin and it's Kings across the board (as it should be even in 3.0.9).
Only 25man raiding will be affected, and then it's on the order of 5k mana over 10 minutes.
10 min = 600 seconds = 120 5-second-ticks.
120 ticks * 42.5 mana = 5100 mana.
Yes, 5 people in the group benefit (25k mana), but per person that's not a horrible hit.
On an average 3 minute fight that's 1530 mana.
Ret specific - it will hurt us if you regularly run with an Enhance Shaman in your party. 1530 mana for our Ret "rotation" isn't negligible. That's 1/4 of our mana pool (buffed), or another Divine Plea.
Have to agree, based on the previously listed reasons, I expect regen tweaks. Unlike most, I don't think it's going to be JotW - I'm hoping for another basket of eggs. Time will tell.
Mana spring mana in the tooltip is mp2, so talented mana spring is 106.25 mp5. The difference in nerfing/buffing either the totem or BoW is going to be minimal.
I'm hoping that with the merging of BoW and Mana Spring totem, that they also look into improving the buffing for paladins a bit, one major headache of mine is setting up blessings, it would be virtually impossible to setup without any kind of buffmod.
I've seen paladins with 1 point in Blessing of Kings, have them show up as having kings, then later on being whined at because i couldn't be bothered to inspect all the paladins to check their talents first, that kind of interaction shouldn't be required.
You got a paladin, you can tell him to buff kings, might or wisdom, you shouldn't have to use an addon to make it more optimal. Otherwise it's pretty nice changes sofar, baseline kings and one less buff to worry about.
Edit: Thinking a bit into it, what about Totem Ranges, this will be horrible if it'll have a range limit of all other totems *sigh*
Even without the 4 piece, the difference between a Shaman in-party or not was not noticeable.
However, it matters a lot for healers and Mages/Warlocks.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
The BoW->Mana Spring tweak is interesting. Mana Spring is 42.5 mp5 talented. BoW is 109.2 mp5 talented.
Either Mana Spring gets buffed (most likely) or BoW gets nerfed (to BC levels?!?). Hoping for the best, this is a buff for 5/10man raiding. Even with 2 paladins in a 5 or 10man you could get Kings and Might or Sanctuary (3% less damage never hurts). One paladin and it's Kings across the board (as it should be even in 3.0.9).
Only 25man raiding will be affected, and then it's on the order of 5k mana over 10 minutes.
10 min = 600 seconds = 120 5-second-ticks.
120 ticks * 42.5 mana = 5100 mana.
Yes, 5 people in the group benefit (25k mana), but per person that's not a horrible hit.
On an average 3 minute fight that's 1530 mana.
Ret specific - it will hurt us if you regularly run with an Enhance Shaman in your party. 1530 mana for our Ret "rotation" isn't negligible. That's 1/4 of our mana pool (buffed), or another Divine Plea.
Have to agree, based on the previously listed reasons, I expect regen tweaks. Unlike most, I don't think it's going to be JotW - I'm hoping for another basket of eggs. Time will tell.
I was surprised that the Mana spring=BoW change didn't happen when 3.0 was released. I'm not looking forward to 3.1 if it happens that our mana and/or recoil damage isn't looked at/pushed back to the next patch.
Instead of this change allowing paladins to opt out of casting BoW and start worrying about totem range, I'd rather just continue assigning someone to casting BoW. In battles with AOE damage or some other gimmick, healing stream or cleansing might be more beneficial.
Correct, it is still better to have a Pally cast Wisdom for the same reason why Might is better than Battle Shout.
Raid-wide 500 hp5 from healing stream cannot be ignored.
However, making it one buff helps with balancing and 5/10 mans or maybe having a poor balance of classes in 25.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
Correct, it is still better to have a Pally cast Wisdom for the same reason why Might is better than Battle Shout.
Raid-wide 500 hp5 from healing stream cannot be ignored.
However, making it one buff helps with balancing and 5/10 mans or maybe having a poor balance of classes in 25.
Although Mana Spring is now raidwide, I don't think they mentioned anything about Healing Stream receiving the same treatment. As far as I've seen, it is still party-wide.
I'm an optimist so my conclusion would be that Blue doesn't have a solution/decision about it, so they won't respond directly, but that they are working on it. It isn't the easiest problem to solve, you have to admit.
First off I want to say THANK YOU for such an awesome and informative thread/guide. Initially I had followed this guide (posted somewhere else) when converting from Prot to Ret and had good results. Then I went brain dead I guess and started chasing what I thought was the all powerfull Attack Power and pretty much gimped myself. A few days ago I came to my senses and came back to this guide to re-gem and re-enchant my gear properly. It has helped considerably! Now I find myself with a delima. I have my hit capped at 277 (no hit gems used at all), my strength now almost 1.1k and my attack power just over 3k all unbuffed...but where I am having a delima is with my expertise, I have none at all. In my last heroic I had no misses but a bit over 8% glancing blows. Right now I don't have access to any gear that has an expertise rating, I am trying to get some but haven't yet. I read earlier that I should never use gems to get expertise but I wonder in my case, since I have none, would it be better for me to drop 1 +8 Str/crit gem for the Dragon's Eye to get expertise? Or if I can't find a Dragon's Eye drop 2 red Strength gems for 2 Expertise gems to get capped? Or should I just live with what I have and wait until I can get an expertise drop?
Thanks for the advice
I think your questions have already sufficiently been answered, but just to add on. If you are only running 10 man Naxx, its extremely difficult to get Expertise capped, so don't kill yourself getting there. Even in 25 mans, you may have to look at some leather to get you to the cap. I am currently using 2 pieces of leather with expertise on them. I can get it with plate, but sometimes your gear is limited by what drops, regardless of how many times you might run something. Be patient with it. Expertise cap is more difficult to reach than Hit. I really hope with our T8/8.5 gear we see Expertise on at least 1-2 pieces.
I had a general question for other ret pallies in my situation. I am hit capped, exptertise capped, unbuffed crit is around 31% (is that too low?), and have around 3800+ AP unbuffed (which seems high compared to most I ret pallies I compare myself to). My DPS seemed to cap out after I hit around 3400-3500 AP. I use the FCFS rotation. I wish I had some full clear naxx numbers to post, but I am not sure that its a dps rotation issue or not. Anyone else running into this? (currently equipped hand of brutality). I mean I guess at some point stat upgrades are going to be less noticeable, but it could also just be a scaling issue for Ret Pallies.
Also, anyone else notice all the Armor Pen on the Ulduar gear?
I had a general question for other ret pallies in my situation. I am hit capped, exptertise capped, unbuffed crit is around 31% (is that too low?), and have around 3800+ AP unbuffed (which seems high compared to most I ret pallies I compare myself to).
...
Also, anyone else notice all the Armor Pen on the Ulduar gear?
I noticed your gear features a lot of leather and the "wrong" weapon enchant. Those will inflate your unbuffed AP, but after raid buffs the leather will actually tend to not be as good as str (due to kings + Divine Str), and not having Berserking on your weapon is an average AP loss (though your paper doll stats will go down). I'd say overall your stats are fine, and you should definitely be in line to break 4k DPS at least, especially with a betrayer. Again, str/AP are much more important than expertise or hit, so don't go out of your way to get capped in hit and expertise.
And ArP is buffed in 3.1, so it's not quite as terrible as it used to be for us.
Formally Xyrm/Zurm, the Ret Pally. Now playing my rogue, Zyrm, more casually with RL friends.
I think your questions have already sufficiently been answered, but just to add on.
My DPS seemed to cap out after I hit around 3400-3500 AP. I use the FCFS rotation. Anyone else running into this?
I hate to be that guy all the time, but the sheer amount of useless posts in this thread is getting a bit overwhelming which is why the banhammer is smacking what seems like every other person around. Don't take it personal that I singled your post out... You just happened to be the poster I stumbled upon in my current, foul, need-more-coffee mood.
If the question has been sufficiently answered there is, by definition, no reason to add anything, so please don't.
If your dps capped out it's only because you're taking side-grades instead of upgrades. Better gear = More dps. We actually scale exceptionally well with gear because of all of our % modifiers.
I am hit capped, exptertise capped, unbuffed crit is around 31%
If you are hit capped and expertise capped, you're probably not wearing the best gear you could.
As for visible DPS increases - you can run a mod which watches your hits/crits and records the biggest so you know when it goes up. Huzzah, I did 2 more damage! This isn't terribly helpful.
However, in general, if you're in all L200 epics and you swap one out for a different, better L200 epic, will you experience noticeable DPS change? Probably not. You do increase, but it's not nearly as noticeable as going from L200 to L213 on items. The extra points the items have (rather than just slightly better itemization at the same level) increases your output.
As has been repeated multiple times - Strength, Strength, Strength. Sometimes you can get more AP on a leather item than even Str with Divine Str and Kings, but it's rarer than it used to be.
Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."
* Sanctified Seals was renamed to Sanctity of Battle, now Increases your chance to critically hit with all spells and attacks by 1/2/3% and increases the damage caused by Exorcism and Crusader Strike by 5/10/15%.
"Sanctified Seals was renamed to Sanctity of Battle, now Increases your chance to critically hit with all spells and attacks by 1/2/3% and increases the damage caused by Exorcism and Crusader Strike by 5/10/15%." PTR 3.1.0 - Build 9684
I'm pretty sure this has been posted several pages ago already, with half a page discussion about how they are greatly improving our burst dmg (and thus the pvp whines that come from it) but not doing much to our sustained damage.
Yes this change has been announced about a week ago, just wasn't implemented yet.
PTR still not up in the EU realms so if possible, could anyone on the US test to see if RV still has the majority of it's damage being resisted?
03/11/09, 9:14 PM
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