I had a general question for other ret pallies in my situation. I am hit capped, exptertise capped, unbuffed crit is around...
You have 8.78% hit, that's 0.78% over the cap or 1.78% over optimum for an alliance player with a draenei in party.
That's quiet a lot of wasted stats, ~59 rating worth. To give you a picture of how much that's worth, if you could use those 59 stat points as STR it would be close to ~110DPS (based on BiS gear).
Yes this change has been announced about a week ago, just wasn't implemented yet.
PTR still not up in the EU realms so if possible, could anyone on the US test to see if RV still has the majority of it's damage being resisted?
US PTR's are horribly unstable right now (both in Northrend and in Eastern Kingdoms) so I wasn't able to get alot of testing in before I couldn't handle it anymore. However, after testing on some random Northrend mobs, the invincible mobs in Blasted Lands, and a Target Dummy, RV is still doing 24% damage instead of 30% and is still seeing partial resists in the neighborhood of 75% per tick.
Just tested Aura Mastery on the PTR. It does not amp any improved talents, just the baseline Aura. It also doesn't seem to amp the scaling portion of Ret Aura, just the base damage.
Still, its fun to mess with Crusader Aura.
E: RV still seems to be bugged. Submitting a report, feel free to do the same.
Last edited by flyingtoastr : 03/13/09 at 2:55 AM.
my ret pally is decently geared. I'm able to reach the top full dps in my guild at some fights.
however when looking at WWS and WMO, i feel that im not doing the DPS i should be doing with my current gear.
Other than latency reasons (300-400ms), im looking at my rotation.
can someone give a decent line out of a good rotation? FCFS is just too vague..
You should really read through the original post, we don't have any rotation other than FCFS, look at the part about Clash Resolution, and resolve it using highest DPS as priority.
Fisker claims exactly the opposite of the guy on MMO champion. A poster on the 2nd page in the above link said he still has SA. A third further down claims he does not. I'm not on PTR so I cannot confirm either way.
Interesting little tidbit I just noticed on the PTR, the deadly gladiator libram was stealth buffed to a 10 second duration. Pretty nice little buff, 100% uptime pretty much guaranteed now.
Also something I noticed after the addition of sanctity of battle. %Modifiers to CS work a in a weird way, I figured they would just stack straight up so we would get 140% CS damage (or 1.1 (CS)*1.1 (AoW)*1.15(SoB)), however it seems that the don't just straight multiply like that, they multiple with CS but not each other, so we get 137.5% or [ (1.1(CS)*.1(AoW) ) + (1.1(CS)*.15(SoB )+ 1.1(CS)]. The reason I point this out is that I would imagine a common question may come up involving the PvP gloves since CS is getting a boost, and if all the modifiers multiplied they would be far more useful than before Sanctity of Battle, however since they do not, that 5% bonus is still only 5.5% instead of 7% (which it essentially would have been had the all multiplied).
we can see, that the stats have been doubled from BC to Wrath.
But while 1 Strength equals 2 Attackpower since the release of WoW, the Rating required to get 1% Crit/Hit/Exp was increased significantly.
This means, to keep Ratings competitive to Strength, Blizzard should have increased them by a higher factor than Strength on gems.
My questions are:
1. I have the feeling, that Ratings on items increased more than on gems, does anybody have proof to this?
2. If this is true, is it intended by blizzard, that ratings fall behind Strength on gems?
3. Does this apply to other classes, too? I can remember, when i played my rogue alt during BC, that Hit-Rating was more then twice as good as agility until the style-hit-cap (Source: maxdps.com). When i look at the rogue threads on these forums, it is only about 50% better until the style-hit-cap now.
PS: i apologize for my bad english, i'm not a native speaker.
There is definitely something up with SA on the PTR.
I have two lvl80 Paladins on the PTR. One has Spiritual Attunement Rank 2 (and only Rank 2) in her Spellbook and gets 10% mana back from heals. The other one has neither Rank of SA and recieves no mana from heals.
I created a new Paladin to check the trainer and neither SA Rank 1 or 2 are listed on the trainer. Given this, I'm tempted to say that those still with SA in the spellbook are the ones with a bug, not the other way around. It smacks of 'Ghost Hit' all over again.
But while 1 Strength equals 2 Attackpower since the release of WoW, the Rating required to get 1% Crit/Hit/Exp was increased significantly.
To provide some actual numbers:
15.77 hit rating at level 70 or 32.79 hit rating at level 80
With both gems doubling in stats, hit rating requirement also basically doubled. So, you would need twice as much hit as you used to but are also getting twice as much of it, while you are still getting the same benefit from strength as you used to and getting twice as much of it.
EDIT: As a sort of answer to your first question, comparing T4 and T7 regarding hit and strength
T4 T7
STR 212 397
Hit 39 83
You could do a more accurate spread by putting in all the Tiers, but this is a quick look, and while not exactly, both of the stats also approximately doubled. So, while it is a limited data set, gear seems to have scaled similarly that of gems.
There's really not that much in it, a ~4% relative depreciation. It's more a combination of this depreciation combined with Divine Strength giving +15% strength rather than +10% strength like it did in most of TBC that is making Strength more attractive, I believe.
There's really not that much in it, a ~4% relative depreciation. It's more a combination of this depreciation combined with Divine Strength giving +15% strength rather than +10% strength like it did in most of TBC that is making Strength more attractive, I believe.
Divine Strength scaling is certainly a large portion of the attractiveness, but Sheath of Light is where Strength becomes so ridiculously good considering CS and DS are the only spells that do not scale from spell power.
1. I have the feeling, that Ratings on items increased more than on gems, does anybody have proof to this?
2. If this is true, is it intended by blizzard, that ratings fall behind Strength on gems?
3. Does this apply to other classes, too? I can remember, when i played my rogue alt during BC, that Hit-Rating was more then twice as good as agility until the style-hit-cap (Source: maxdps.com). When i look at the rogue threads on these forums, it is only about 50% better until the style-hit-cap now.
PS: i apologize for my bad english, i'm not a native speaker.
As far as I know, relative item weight scales haven't changed. It might be possible that spends the itembudget more towards ratings then pure stats, but I can give examples either way.
While it is true that you get less hit-% per hit rating now then before. On first sight it appears that 1 str vs. 1 hit rating would skew by this mechanism. The fact is though, that 1% of hit is a whole lots more dps then it was at 70(or 60). Hit scales with your total dps, while str is a near-flat increase(compared to hit and crit).
What does change, is Blizzard's philosophy. They've said in multiple instances that they didn't want the hit cap to play as an important role as before. You can see that in multiple other cases (rogues as you pointed). They wanted hit to be 'just another stat', a really good one yes, but just a stat. While before wotlk it was more like the crit cap for defense: get it or lose.
Letting strength scale exceptionally well by change coefficients on spells, having str percentage modifiers and giving sheath of light makes it that much better.
God bless our good and gracious king,
Whose promise none relies on;
Who never said a foolish thing,
Nor ever did a wise one.
Ah yes of course. So while in TBC 1 point of strength gave 2.42 AP (divine str + kings), now 1 point of strength gives 2.53 AP and consequently 0.759 SP.
I kept thinking about this statement of GC: "if ret pallies could go 0/0/71", they would" (not the exact words, but that's the idea). My question was: how come it looks like we're the only ones in this situation?
The answer is in fact pretty easy: we are one of the 2 classes that is "highly hybrid". The other one being of course the druid.
What I call "highly hybrid" is being able to sustain 3 different roles, whereas other hybrids typically sustain 2 : heal/dps or tank/dps, which leads to more mixed templates, since we have 3 branches for 2 roles.
We might add the distinction between cac dps and ranged dps to allow shamans to consider themselves "highly hybrid" too, but they manage to share some talents between the branches anyway, all the more as elemental can also have a look at the healing branch. Same goes for the druid, restoration and boomkin can share some love talents too.
Now, I'm pretty sure that feral druids are in the same position as ourselves : if they could go 0/71/0, I think they would.
But, and here comes the difference, Blizzard has put real feral talents in the restoration tree. For instance, the 5points talent that decreases the casting time of healing touch (which is of no use for feral druides) also increases the physical damage done (which is of even less use for resto druids).
Now, back to us, we have no such talents... well, we have 5 points to put in the protection tree to get a lot of strength, but they could have put deflection in the protection tree and DS in the ret tree, this would have just made more sense and, being 5/61 or 0/66 wouldn't have changed the phylosophy that much...
They want to give us "utility talents" to try to get us to climb the other trees... well, in my guild we use to say "stamina gives no dps", meaning that utility is good if it's free, but it's still artificial, and in Raiding PvE, main target for dps classes is to... dps.
Therefore, to my opinion, if they want to make other trees attractive, well, they have to put talents we WANT to take there, not just leave us with 12 free talent points and say "see, happy, you can take whatever you want !". In this regard, of course you want to leave Divine Strength in the protec tree, then you want to add a 2 or 3-points DPS talent at the next level, and another one just under to reach 12 or 13 points... and maybe even an attractive 16 points talent.
This would actually "force" us to go down the protection tree, but with some utility choices on the path, to fill the missing points between the dps talents. And this would not just leave us in the wild, choosing between healing talents "just in case" or, the most obvious, pvp/resistance talents "well, because at least it'll be nice for the farming".
Just my 2-cents on this subject, just to be a bit of a change from the heavy "JoB recoil" discussion
It makes sense for this to happen if the 11 point talents and/or the 21 point talents are useful to multiple specs. That's not quite the case with us. The new 11 pointers in the other trees are nice utility but are nothing compared to (for example) omen of clarity and (to a lesser extent) master shapeshifter and intensity. To stay with the druid example, sure there's talents along the way that a feral druid or boomkin would take if they were in their own trees but it really is to get those above stated talents. If blizzard want us to spec into other trees they really need to make it worthwhile.
Unfortunately, 21 points talent is not an option, since our 51-pointer is a mandatory talent, where talents at the same level in other classes/specs are advertised as "gameplay choices". We could even consider Beacon of Light a gameplay choice, if there actually was something worth for holy paladins available for 21 points in the ret or protection tree.
But Divine Storm, and same goes for HotR, is completely mandatory. Please note that's another answer to why we always go so deep in the ret tree... leaving at most 20 points to go for another branch.
SA has been removed. Now all we need is the same thing to happen to recoil and our dps brought inline with what other similar classes are doing.
That's odd, my Paladins still have Spiritual Attunement, possible bug with the removal then?
Edit: Actually 4 of my 5 paladins(Don't know why i got 5 copies instead of 4) have Spiritual Attunement, i guess the one without Spiritual Attunement was also that paladin that was was an "extra".
Unfortunately, 21 points talent is not an option, since our 51-pointer is a mandatory talent, where talents at the same level in other classes/specs are advertised as "gameplay choices". We could even consider Beacon of Light a gameplay choice, if there actually was something worth for holy paladins available for 21 points in the ret or protection tree.
But Divine Storm, and same goes for HotR, is completely mandatory. Please note that's another answer to why we always go so deep in the ret tree... leaving at most 20 points to go for another branch.
Yeah, I was just saying that there are/have been specs which ignore their end talent because a 21 pointer was awesome. The example that sticks in my head (doesn't exist anymore of course) was the Destro warlock which went 21 points into demo to sacrifice their pet on the altar of god alone knows what for 15% more dps. I didn't mention the 21 pointers further down because well, BoS or Divine Favor are completely useless to us.
That's odd, my Paladins still have Spiritual Attunement, possible bug with the removal then?
Edit: Actually 4 of my 5 paladins(Don't know why i got 5 copies instead of 4) have Spiritual Attunement, i guess the one without Spiritual Attunement was also that paladin that was was an "extra".
I just checked my char on the PTR and I don't have SA anymore. Had it prior to the patch as I had been testing some Ulduar encounters and regen was the same as usual.
I tried unlearning both my talent specs to see if this could be the cause, but there was no difference.
I have a question concerning max DPS pallies on this forum tend to do. I've heard quite a few people talking about 7kDPS on Patchwerk. I, on the other hand, have finally broke the 5K DPS mark on Patchwerk last night. My gear is not yet min-maxed but I doubt it's far enough to justify a 2k DPS difference.
I play in France on a EU server so I'm not affected by lag. Is it group comp? Is it that last bit of gear missing? I've read all the tips about rotation and when to use AW and I still cant get close to 6-7k. If I deserve a "L2P noob", don't hesitate (im new to ret), as long as there is some advice as well
03/12/09, 7:14 PM
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