Rawr Retribution Model - Page 13

TheBacon · 06/21/09, 2:05 PM

I can't use rawr yet, but could you not just create a raid buff that reduces attack speed by 20%? Maybe just manually add 20% to the speed of the weapon after haste but leave the dps the same?

Landos · 06/21/09, 4:28 PM

Originally Posted by rldolph79

It's pretty clear you don't understand where the majority of ret damage comes from. Melee is ~20% of our damage, and seal damage is ~25%. Decreased attack speed will make a HUGE difference. It's pretty easy to argue that GV's aura hurts ret more than any other class, so using that fight as a baseline to compare yourself to the spreadsheet is a terrible idea.

I understand the implications of a 20% melee speed reduction for our dps, and yes that accounts for why my dps was so much worse than the sheet. what I was referring to was the
avg non crit hit was 2764
average crit was 5327
Total Average / cast 4353

Rawr Values
"Average Hit" 3131
"Average Damage" 5897
And as endosencient said, that would require that I post the rawr char sheet and the combat log to find the discrepancy. Sorry I made that unclear.

Wow Web Stats is the combat log for the fight. One thing to note, I didn't start logging until10-15s in, so it missed the initial applications of Curse of elements, sunders etc, and shows only a small uptime for them as it only picked up on them being refreshed.
2) Sunders did fall off during the fight as the person applying them DC'd.

Endoscient · 06/21/09, 5:08 PM

As I said in my previous post, I need a copy of your Rawr character file to be able to help you in anyway. Sunders falling off could definitely have a large impact of the average damage of a physical ability. Rawr does simulate ideal conditions, so when you have an incomplete log file, and people providing buffs DC'ing, you can't expect it to be exact.

Alcapwnd · 07/01/09, 1:52 PM

Simply clicking the new 3.2 Mode button takes my projected DPS from around 6k to about 3.6k. Am I missing something?

Endoscient · 07/01/09, 2:11 PM

Change to Seal of Vengeance. Seal of Blood was removed, so if you use 3.2 mode with it active then Seals/Judgements will do 0 dps.

Alcapwnd · 07/03/09, 12:45 PM

This is more of a Rawr general question but why am i still seeing items from Hard mode 25 man encounters listed on the right even when I've filtered to show no Hard Mode 25 man items? It makes generating BiS no hard mode lists very tedious.

• frmorrison · 07/03/09, 3:16 PM

Originally Posted by Alcapwnd

makes generating BiS no hard mode lists very tedious.

Someone already created a non-hard mode list

(you may not have every plate non-hard item to make it valid). I just know which items are hard mode or not (either 10 or 25).

Alcapwnd · 07/03/09, 5:09 PM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

Someone already created a non-hard mode list

(you may not have every plate non-hard item to make it valid). I just know which items are hard mode or not (either 10 or 25).

I'm happy you have that kind of time to research every item. I use Rawr to save me time.

calindrios · 07/11/09, 1:39 AM

Rawr says that hit is the most important stat for me, expertise the 2nd, then str 3rd when i am 25 man buffed.

Now, i know it says that the relative stat values may be incorrect, and it says to use the numbers rawr gives items, but as i look at how gear is rated, im fairly sure rawr is just using the numbers from relative stat values.

Im hit capped, but im not expertise capped. I know that unbuffed expertise is less dps than strength, however when i gain 25 man buffs expertise is more dps than str, would it be a bad idea to gem expertise then if i wanted to improve my 25 man dps? If gemming str is better (which is what ive read everywhere else) id also like to know if anyone knows why.

vorda · 07/14/09, 6:37 AM

Meh, you should really toy around a bit more with Rawr.

1) "im fairly sure rawr is just using the numbers from relative stat values."
Wrong, it is modeling each gear item based on how much an upgrade it is. If you're 1 hit rating short of being capped, it won't advise items with 100 hit rating, even if hit has the highest stat value pre cap.

2) expertise vs strenght
Expertise actually is worth more once you get raid buffs than before. It's not that hard to imagine really, when you start hitting very very hard, missing that hit costs you more than if you hit very low.
Anyway, Rawr has settings to simulate raid buffs, feel free to toy around with them. (just say off the 'bloodlust' under the 'buffs' tab, this one simulates 100% bloodlust uptime)
As for my personal opinion, I'll be using one single expertise gem to get capped in BiS gear (a few items away still

), before that, I'm just gemming strenght for stronger JoL and near equal dps.

edit: I would also advise against using alot of hit and expertise gems, as each item upgrade will mean tons and tons of regemming. (I have this in my tanking set, where I ride the 540 def cap constantly)
Another good tip is to plan your gear upgrades ahead where possible. In my case, I would have gotten a tiny bit more dps by crafting the leather boots, using a different neck and different head/shoulders on short term, but I opted to craft the mail boots a few weeks ago, simply because the Algalon boots are a direct upgrade of these, which makes it easy to plan my upgrades.

Alcapwnd · 07/14/09, 1:06 PM

Question about the hit cap in regards to Rawr: The optimizer is recommending a setup for my current gear that puts me at 226 hit rating (.11% below the 8% cap). It could easily recommend that I add a +hit gem to close that gap but it doesn't. Is this basically saying that I'm close enough to the cap that it's more dps to gem with a +16 STR instead?

• Zurm · 07/14/09, 1:16 PM

Originally Posted by Alcapwnd

Question about the hit cap in regards to Rawr: The optimizer is recommending a setup for my current gear that puts me at 226 hit rating (.11% below the 8% cap). It could easily recommend that I add a +hit gem to close that gap but it doesn't. Is this basically saying that I'm close enough to the cap that it's more dps to gem with a +16 STR instead?

If you check my armory, you will also notice that I am also at 226 hit rating. This is because hit rating becomes nearly useless after cap, and it isn't THAT much better than STR. Wasting 4 hit on an [Etched Monarch Topaz] is NOT worth it over a 16 str.

Exemplar · 07/14/09, 2:21 PM

Hit below cap is slightly ahead of Str. After cap it's barely noticable (only affects Consecration and Exorcism).

So to synopsize Zurm in math terms:
16 Str > 4 hit (at full value) + 4 hit (at overcap value) + 8 Str

• frmorrison · 07/14/09, 7:54 PM

Originally Posted by Zurm

Wasting 4 hit on an [Etched Monarch Topaz] is NOT worth it over a 16 str.

I hate seeing misses, so in that situation I would gem the Etched, even though 4 hit rating is past the soft cap. The difference is 1-2 dps and slightly weaker JoL.

• Zurm · 07/15/09, 9:53 AM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

I hate seeing misses, so in that situation I would gem the Etched, even though 4 hit rating is past the soft cap. The difference is 1-2 dps and slightly weaker JoL.

To each their own, I suppose. However, what you said is not really different than stacking some random, non-ideal stat for bigger numbers. The chance to miss while 4 hit rating short is 0.11%. That means that 1 in 1000 hits will miss; in other words, you might miss ONE thing every two fights. The numbers you SEE are irrelevant. The only thing that worries me about misses is judgement, because that would impact my mana return.

Again, just something to think of. While in the greater scheme of things 1-2 dps may seem small, in the context of the value of a gem socket, it's quite large.