This might be a little offtopic but I was curious what Rawr models as a physical attack versus melee attack for the retribution model.

What rotation is selected just changes what rotation you are editing with the list box. Rawr will compute how much dps you do with each entered rotation, and then automatically chose the one that does the most dps. This was added to give a more accurate evaluation of things that change what rotation you use.

Yea, 2T10 is currently modelled as being able to proc from CS/Judge. I'll remove that once I get back, currently posting from my phone. . edit: I was able to get someone else to make this simple fix for me, so this change will be in for 2.3.3 which should come out today or tomorrow.

Hammer of Wrath is a physical attack and not a ranged attack. Judgement used to also be a ranged attack, but was changed to melee in 3.2. I will double check to make sure Judgement is working as a melee attack when I get back. Since that change happened right around when I quit, so it might have been lost in the fray.

The 2 piece T10 bonus seems to be bugged. RAWR 2.3.3 claims that it is a DPS decrease(of about 40 dps), which is certainly not true.

Sorry for bump, but since the proc is still bugged in 2.3.3, I'd like to make sure you haven't missed my post.

Is it just me, or there are several plate items missing in this new version? wich were not missing in the last one by the way.

Just load upgrades from the Armory, that will pick up nearly all the new plate items.

2 Piece T9 was extremely powerful (even more so if the rest of the gear is ICC with higher crit rating). It's possible if the second piece of 2T10 is breaking 2T9 that it's a DPS loss.

In other words, the loss of the T9 bonus hurts more than the T10 bonus helped.

2T9 > 2T10
4T9 < 4T10
Sometimes 2T9 + 2T10 < 4T10, sometimes 2T9 + 2T10 > 4T10. Not sure if the knowledge of 2T10 proc only on auto now makes 4T10 always beat mixed-set.

That is not what I was describing. I was planing upgrade path for Emblems of Frost and wanted to see which T10 pieces to get first, without breaking T9 2 piece, and I noticed that going to 2 pieces T10 was no upgrade to current gear. Then I checked the Gear/Enchants/Buffs section, and 2 pieces T10 was listed as -44 dps.

2P 10 appears to provide lower than expected DPS in version 2.3.3. I'll give you an example: T9 helm, T9 gloves, T10 shoulders, and the ilvl 258 ToGC leather DPS chest. Switch the leather chest to the ilvl 251 T10 chest. DPS drops from 10063 to 10045. The AGI and T10 chests are both crit/haste, so hit and expertise aren't a factor. In the previous version (2.3.2) such a change would result in a 600+ DPS gain. If Red's numbers are accurate I'd expect something like a 200-300 DPS gain.

I am without access to a computer with Visual Studio/Rawr until Tuesday. So I can only respond about things I know without having to test/look at stuff in Rawr.

2T10 is really messed up in 2.3.3, totally ignore any numbers it gives about it. I was trying to get someone else to change it for me so not being able to proc from CS/Judge could be in, but it ended up backfiring.

If you go 'Buffs > Set Bonuses' in Rawr you can see the dps values the program is calculating using your current gear. For me this is how it looks; I'm using mix of ToC and ICC gear:

2pc T9: 288.11 dps (appears accurate)
4pc T9: 65.08 dps (again fine)

2pc T10: 61.65 dps (less than 4pc T9)
4pc T10: 347.55 dps (about what Redcape had figured, so seems good)

Right now Rawr is showing 2pc T10 to be on par with 4pc T9 when in reality it should be closer to ~270 dps.

I don't know it's being used in for any under the hood calculations, but Melee Haste under the Basic Stats section of Rawr appears to be using the proper post 3.2 conversion factor for Haste Rating to Melee Haste % (25.22).

Ah it was a 3.2 change? It should be included then. I just know that there weren't any rating or mechanics changes for 3.3 (aside from T10 modeling).

Just peeking at stat weighings for 2.3.4 Rawr is showing that Haste rating > Strength when using 2pc T10

Looks like the haste rating change is in, if not double dipped...

*edit* with no haste buffs, my armory page matches the rawr model. Curiouser and curiouser.

After playing around with gear, the stat weighing reverted back to str on top. Just a bug I guess.

I thought Zurm was talking about a buff to haste in 3.3, which I didn't see since it didn't happen. Rawr was always up to date with 3.2 mechanics from before I quit.

Anyway I was able to get 2T10 fixed when I got home for 3.2.4, but I didn't have a chance to look into to anything else. It should be correct in 3.2.4 (with only white hits proccing), so let me know if there are any issues.

My todo list at the moment:

• Check Victor's Call type trinkets
• Check seals procs causing melee hit procs
• Look into Rotation Simulator using many actual length fights each with their own static seed.

Were there any changes made to haste in version 2.3.4?

At 452 haste rating using 23 haste to cloak provided negative 136 DPS relative to having no cloak enchant at all. In addition, I'm also seeing times at which Herkumi War Token and Deathbringer's Will (277) provide more DPS than Whispering Fanged Skull (264). I did not observe these issues in 2.3.2 or 2.3.3.

I'm also getting some weird results. I tried to equip a full t10 251 set apart from pants to see if the 4pc bonus suggests any change to the stat values and I'm getting weird results.

This set has 634 haste rating, and using the 23 haste enchant over flexweave underlay (+23 crit) provides a 236,78 dps upgrade. Additionally, Herkuml War Totem gives a dps boost of 707,03 beating the heroic DV by 110,9 DPS.

I should probably add that I'm using a 0,2 on the "Wait" box in the rotation tab, and that seems to make the difference. If I put back 0,05, the dps values get lower, if not kind of back to normal. I.e., the totem gets a 483 dps value instead of 707 and the 23 haste cloak enchant goes back to 1 less dps than flexweave underlay, while 0,01 dps better than the normal 22 agi.

If I even slightly change the 0,20 on "Wait" to 0,25, the haste value drops even more, which seems to suggest what Exemplar and someone else mentioned in the Ret thread about haste reaching plateaus is valid.

What's puzzling me is why the 23 haste cloak enchant provides such substantial dps increase, given the right circumstances, and yet the relative stat value of haste stays at 1,08. It might have to do with haste reaching certain "plateaus" again.

I did neither observe this in 3.2.3, with the same set equipped.

Run the exact same tests with the exact same sets of gear (swapping through the haste enchant, trinkets, etc) - but alter the fight duration. Set it nice and long, something like 6 hrs+ is ideal.

I believe what you've got is a short fight length, and suddenly haste is earning 1 extra auto-attack (+ seal), which causes a jump in DPS. By extending the fight duration you reduce the bump created by a single extra attack.

I.e. 5 minute fight with 90 autoattacks suddenly goes to 91 autoattacks. This skews things.

I can't, the maximum I can set the fight duration, at least for this version is 60 minutes. But yeah what you're getting at is correct, the values change back at 60 minutes.

Interesting. 60 minutes (max time Rawr allows) results in a 277 Deathbringer's Will being more DPS than even a 258 Death's Choice.

However I am still able to obtain weird results @ 60 minutes.

419 haste rating
277 Deathbringer's Will
23 haste to cloak results in negative 128 DPS.
15 haste to cloak results in negative 140 DPS.
Glyph of Consecration results in positive 33 DPS (less than Glyph of Exorcism).

572 haste rating
Herkuml War Token (switched in for DBW)
23 haste to cloak results in positive 222 DPS.
15 haste rating results in positive 207 DPS.
Glyph of Consecration results in negative 127 DPS.

Looks like Glyph of Consecration is resulting in negative DPS if you have 2P T10, ~450 haste, and change the priority order from J>CS>DS>CONC>HOW>EXO to J>CS>DS>HOW>CONC>EXO. This occurs in both 5 min and 60 min time frames. I'm not sure what's going on.

Something to look into. While interesting, if it's below our current trinkets in the 5-10 minute range (the typical boss fight duration) then it really doesn't change things. I suppose it comes down to which proc we get, but the massive amount of passive ArP isn't helping matters.

When you talking about seeing weird things with haste, is that with 2T10 equipped or not? Also please post the character file and what item you see it with.

Exemplar it can't be caused by fight duration and having a small amount of haste change how many attacks go off. Since to make dps as smooth as possible (while still being accurate since a fight is almost never exact to the second), White DPS is just average White hit damage divided by Attack Speed.

It is most likely something to do with 2T10. It probably is because getting a proc is making you to use DS instead of another move that would do more dps. So getting more procs would lower the dps. I noticed a bug in the implementation of 2T10 that isn't calculating the amount of procs right, so it might also be related to that.