rea123

Hi,

Possibly being an eejit here (new to Rawr), but when you say talent ranks look wrong, does this include talents that you expect to be available not appearing? And if so, what does one do about it?

I ask because having downloaded according to instructions, I cannot see the Divine Guardian talent at all in the Prot tree.

Based on the fact that I haven't found any other comment about this, and the fact that it is currently thought to be part of the generally accepted "best" spec for Ret (0/17/54), I suspect I may have done something embarrassingly wrong, but for the life of me I can't see what it is ;-)

 

Endoscient

Divine Guardian isn't in, because when we updated the talent trees it wasn't implemented yet. It doesn't effect calculations in anyway, so you can just pretend you have it. It will be in for the final 2.2 release.

 

Alarius

Is there a better module suited for the live realms than the one that comes in the latest stable version of Rawr? As it is now that one doesn't value librams and certain enchants and trinkets.

 

Raencloud

You should be able to add in any trinkets and librams that aren't already in the item cache. To do so, go to Tools->Edit Items. In the bottom left of that window there is an "Add Items" button, and you can just type in the name of whatever item you want added in. Make sure you spell it correctly though.

edited to add: Not sure how to add enchants.

Unfortunately, though, I believe the Ret module of Rawr is only setup to model 3.1 with all the new changes, so some of the informations may not be 100% accurate to you on live right now.

 

rea123

The librams are already in the (2.1.9) item cache; not sure why they are not available in the comparisons window. There is a thread in the Rawr discussion forum in which the original author stated that he'd fix this if it were an easy fix, so I'm guessing either he didn't get round to it (understandibly, given that he's otherwise occupied at the moment), or it isn't easy.

As for enchants, those need to be amended by hand in the EnchantCache.xml file. From another discussion on Rawr forum, you can fix Berserking (I assume that's the one you want - it was for me) by finding that entry in EnchantCache.xml, incrementing the ID field, and replacing <BerserkingProc>1</BerserkingProc> with <AttackPower>140</AttackPower>.

The only other change I made to get a reasonable 3.0.9 module in 2.1.9 was to edit Chuchu's Tiny Box of Horrors (using the Edit Item interface) to add (iirc) 51.2 flat Crit Rating to simulate the proc (based on discussion on wowhead).

Hope this helps.

 

• frmorrison

3.1 is coming out April 14th or 21st, so you might as well use the beta Rawr even for the current game. 2.1.9 didn't have the two roll system and did a few things wrong, so no point in using it.

You can always edit a trinket/libram into Rawr. Rawr has support for the all the librams (like extra damage to DS/CS), but you may have to manually find the correct field in the edit table.

For modeling click trinkets, I use use the average over time, so if your trinket has a click for 200 AP for 15 seconds (2 min cooldown), you use 200 * 15/120 or 25 AP to model it in Rawr.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Alarius

Okay thanks, I'll give the beta a shot when I get home, I wasn't sure exactly how close 3.1 was to 3.0.9 so I hesitated.

I'll also try modeling some of that stuff myself to brush up on some math but I do foresee having to dig up ICDs and such for certain items like Mirror of Truth, no big deal though.

 

greatrichie

Ok this may be the wrong place to ask this and it may be a stupid question, but I'm trying to add in the proc from Bandits insignia for my 3.1 set(probably the ghetto way), and taken from my WWS over a night in naxx, the average hit was 2426. The ICD is 45 seconds, so I divided 2426 by 45 seconds, and got ~53. SO that'd be like 53 DPS right?(If not theres a disclaimer later) Then multiplied it by 6, and added that dmg to the CS dmg block on the edit item thing. Now a disclaimer, I suck at math, and more or less just wondering if this is a passable way of figuring that proc (i.e. I know the crit chance for the proc is a bit less than CS but eh).

 

Raencloud

There are a lot of changes, but the 2.1.9 version just isn't very accurate to live either (unless I am misinterpreting the 2 roll system as having already been on live). This single discovery alone nearly invalidates the 2.1.9 rawr module because it severely undervalues hit and expertise.


The first part is correct; it is 53 dps based on those numbers. I don't know if the second part is a very good way to input that though. I thought there was already a way to model dmg procs through the trinket itself though.

 

greatrichie

This is true. I highly doubt they changed the roll system in 3.1, it's just that no one tested it prior to now, so Minus the SoB change and haste changes, the Beta Rawr is probably better for live.

Edit: Actually.... I was one of the people doing the tests, and they were done on live, so 2 roll system applies. Not sure why I didn't think of that when making my first reply.

BI stuff-
Thats why I was asking, because I couldn't think of another way to try and model the Proc, other than tack on the dmg that will happen to something we're going to be using every time it's up. In my mind, as confused as it is, if it does 53 dps, then 53*6 should be what it'd do over 6 seconds, i.e. the cd for CS. As I said I know it works off spell crit, so the crit chance would be a little lower. I was just trying to get a ballpark figure. Mainly because I don't like comparing a BI without a proc to Mirror with a proc figured in.

 

Endoscient

The special effect system got a massive overhaul since beta 6 came out. It will be more accurate, include a lot more procs (like Bandit's Insignia), and will be significantly easier for users to add there own procs. The way you are trying to add it won't work, since "Crusader Strike Damage" gets multiplied by a few CS specific multipliers. I can't think of a good way to model it either with the current stats, you are just going to need to wait until the next beta.

2.1.9 came out before I took over the module and rewrote, so I wouldn't trust its results at all. I would just use 2.2b6 for now, and prepare for 3.1 which should be out in a week or two.

 

saibot

I tried editing the trinket and assigning min-max damage values to "weapon properties" of the edit menu, with a speed of 45, which is ideally assumed the time between procs. I know it's a lot more, but we can agree on that number for argument's sake. Anyway, even though the number "48.51 DPS" appears near "190 Attack Power", it doesn't seem to factor it in for some reason. At least we could get it to work this way.

One question: You said that CS gets multiplied by some CS specific multipliers. Can't we just divide those CS specific multipliers off the damage we are going to input in, so it's like they get cancelled off anyway? E.g. Let's say the trinket gives 53 dps, 53 times 6 is 318. If we divide 318 with 1.1, which is the 10% of AoW we get 289.09, which is the number without the multiplier factored it. Can't you say we could get a very rough estimate of the trinket's worth this way?

I find myself in the very same situation as greatrichie since I have the trinket sitting in my bank for a long time. And since I've tried to "model" it, I looked and tampered with every multiplier that is available on the edit tab but I can't seem to get any results. It would be great if we could know it's value.

 

• frmorrison

The easiest way to model it would be to add in the old SSO neck that had an arcane strike to it (level 70 item from being exalted with SSO), since it is still in Rawr.

BI's proc is a arcane spell, so is affected by all spell modifiers like Vengeance (it affects all magic damage done) and Ebon plague, your spell crit and your spell hit.

Assume 14% spell miss (3% from Spriest) and normal 9% spell hit, 5% chance to miss.

(((1504+2256)*1.13*1.09*.95)/2)(1+0.5(spellcrit%/100))/50 (45 ICD) so assume 30% spell crit + 5% from Scorch + 3% from HotC (-3% for spell crit depression) = 52 dps

You can just add that number to the dps number Rawr gives you at the the left side of the page.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

saibot

As I said in the previous post nothing from the equipment procs works properly for modelling the trinket. I assume you mean the shattered sun spell neck proc, which yes, is modelled in rawr but doesn't seem to affect the trinket at all if you input a value in the field.

 

Endoscient

The SSO neck no longer works in the most current version, I didn't add support for it in when I rewrote the module.

What you are trying to do is add how much dps you know it does, it is really just easiest to pretend it has that much when comparing. This also one of the new benefits of the new special effect system. Users will be able to manually add there own procs (how much the buff gives, its ICD, its proc rate, etc) and it will automatically compute its value.

 

saibot

Is this scheduled for the 2.2 official release or at a later stage?

 

Endoscient

Its in the current source code repository, so it will be out whenever the next release (beta or final) is.

 

HamSlammer

Is the +5% CS damage from the PvP Gloves modeled in b6? I went up and down the 'Misc' menu about 3 times without finding it.

 

Blutelf

It's in the Equipment Procs menu, and you have to enter it as 0.05. I do not know whether it actually does anything.

 

Endoscient

It is modeled, but for some reason the gloves in the default itemcache don't have it set already. You can just right click them and refresh from Wowhead/Armory and it will pick it up.

 

Tyrova

Cooldown Count ftw.

I'd also like to say WOOO!!!

 

Mordekhuul

Even cooldown timers (I use DoTimer) don't seem terribly accurate at the tenths of a second level. I often see one timer list 2 seconds left and another list 1 second left, and then suddenly they both come off cooldown simultaneously. Perhaps that is an artifact of DoTimer and not one seen in other cooldown timers, but it is something I notice often.

 

Paul

I'm still figuring it all out and I'm about positive I don't have a lot of things configured properly, but I do notice that a lot of the items currently only on PTR (seemingly about to be Live according to MMO-Champ) don't load to PTR when using the "Open in Wowhead" option. They load to the live website and get an error, of course.

Just kind of annoying to manually enter in the PTR stuff.

Also, I keep getting errors when trying to update the item database from Wowhead.

I noticed in this thread you had said something about the Deadly Glad libram being properly assessed in this version, but I had to manually add both it and the Venture Co Libram. Loading from the PTR worked, but for the Venture Co Libram I had to manually change the DS Crit to DS damage, anyway.

Does Rawr load from PTR Wowhead as well as Live or only live when using the Update Item Cache option? It seems like it works when adding items from ptr manually in the item options.

I'm having a little trouble with the new rotation options and was hoping someone could direct me as to how to make it as accurate as possible (or if it's already accurate as it can be).

I'm thinking it's possible rotations could change slightly depending on the set of gear, but can't imagine that it would be too different without being completely in spell damage gear or something. Maybe Libram dependent to some extent?

Regardless of whether I choose Undead or Humanoid/Elemental for the target, Crusader Strike > Judgement > HoW > DS > Exorcism > Consecrate seems to give me the best DPS in Ulduar gear (the ones in the item database at least) with the Deadly Glad Libram of Fortitude. It doesn't seem to matter if either Judgement or HoW comes first.

Also, does the Optimizer change rotations at all?

I don't seem to see a DPS increase with spell crit (Winter's Chill, Moonkin Form, probably Focus Magic, too). Wondering if Exorcism works with melee crit now, instead.

Is there a chance you could add Holy Wrath into the rotation? I rarely work it in, but somewhat often everything but HW is on CD.

And this is probably not the right topic, but I'd prefer to just ask real quick if Avoidance and Mitigation could be separated in the Prot module.

Thanks for making such a great tool, guys!


1st edit: Optimizer is seemingly inable to equip the best set of gear with my current options. The gearset I've found is 6726 DPS in a 5 minute fight with the rotation I said above and .05 wait. Optimizer is only finding a maximum of ~6670.

I noticed you had mentioned something about expertise and hit changes and wondering if that has anything to do with it.

 

TheBacon

Sorry to ask what probably is a stupid question, but I am going to anyways. If I have a Mac am I just s.o.l. with rawr?

 

Endoscient

Rawr 2.2 has been released! There has been a lot of cool new stuff in both Retribution and the program overall since the last beta. You can download it over at Codeplex. Since we don't yet know what the official Blizzard talent calculator is going to look like, when importing from the Armory make sure you check your talent spec is accurate.

Rawr 2.2 Changes

• Totally revamped Special Effect system.
  • Used to model trinket procs, and other similar effects.
  • All WotLK trinkets should be modelled by default.
  • Extremely easy for the user to enter in there own custom effects, and have it accurately modelled.
• Automatically selected default buffs when loading a character from the Armory.
• Glyphs moved to being handled as a part of your talent spec.
• Improved calculations display.
• A status bar displaying your current dps, so you can always easily see the effects of different changes.
• Support for using Seal of Command, Rigtheousness and Vengeance.