Rawr Retribution Model - Page 5

Endoscient · 04/14/09, 6:28 PM

That is because of the new talents/items it is trying to download some of the icons from Armory, but it since Armory hasn't been updated yet it isn't finding them and is waiting for it to timeout. The timeout is currently way to long as well. I know it is a pain, but just let it keep running and it should eventually open. We will try get this fixed otherwise as soon as we can.

Cayse · 04/14/09, 6:56 PM

Does the way rawr calculates the value of stats contradict the fixed stat weights of the spreadsheets or is there something I'm doing wrong with it?

The only difference between the two was in the first one, I have expertise gems selected as options (16 exp and 8 exp/8 hit) and what I'm reading from this is specifically opposite of what everyone says... that there is some threshold in dps output where an expertise gem will be better than a strength gem. (And haste > agi for cloaks which I've also seen said as untrue a number of times in the ret thread). I'm guessing that it's a dps threshold, because in my actual gear, T7BiS or lower Ulduar gear, expertise is still of lower value.

The second result is far enough under the expertise cap that the expertise gems are listed above strength gems in dps value, and the AP/exp glove enchants are nearly identically valued.

Exp gems allowed
Exp gems not allowed

Edit; Endo I just saw your post in the ret thread that basically is my answer.

Endoscient · 04/14/09, 7:02 PM

Did you read the huge warning that is shown when you show to relative stat values chart?

Fixed stats weighting are inherently flawed and not accurate. There purpose isn't to give correct accurate results that tell exactly how much each item is worth, but to give you a basic idea of the relative value of stats.

Cayse · 04/14/09, 7:12 PM

I generally use the gem page over the RSV, since the gem/enchant pages count the effective value of the enchant where the RSV is each itemization point and for something like expertise that can be fairly inaccurate.

Endoscient · 04/14/09, 7:15 PM

Originally Posted by Cayse

I generally use the gem page over the RSV, since the gem/enchant pages count the effective value of the enchant where the RSV is each itemization point and for something like expertise that can be fairly inaccurate.

The reasons that RSV is inaccurate affects the Gem chart in the same way. The only stat a Ret cares about that doesn't take up the same amount of the item budget is AP, and you can just multiply it by two to get its item budget value.

InspGadgt · 04/14/09, 8:06 PM

I notice in the new version it no longer displays Hit in the stats page as the previous version did. Did this get omitted or is there an option I'm forgetting to check?

• frmorrison · 04/14/09, 8:25 PM

Originally Posted by InspGadgt

I notice in the new version it no longer displays Hit in the stats page as the previous version did. Did this get omitted or is there an option I'm forgetting to check?

It displays hit, although it is by showing your Miss (so if you had 7% to hit, it would say 1% miss).

Paul · 04/14/09, 11:51 PM

Are the 25% +armor pen and 30% +haste changes modeled in this version?

Endoscient · 04/14/09, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by Paul

Are the 25% +armor pen and 30% +haste changes modeled in this version?

Please read the first post.

Full 3.1 support.

Hylo · 04/15/09, 6:28 AM

Latest build (2.2.0.7) gives me 4,77% crit from 298 agility - or at least that's what the tooltip says. When I checked wowwiki, requirement for 1% crit is 52,08 agi for paladins at lvl80.

On the other hand new US armory gave a paladin 7,63% crit from 227 agility (tooltip again).

As you can see none of these numbers match so what's the deal here? Is Rawr module giving too little crit from agi or are the others incorrect? (I did shuffle quite some pieces around to get hitcapped, but according to rawr my crit% has dropped by almost 5,5%... too bad can't check how it is on live yet)

[edit]: And of course I forgot our crit is different vs. 80 and 83 mobs. I'll ignore the tooltip now as Endoscient suggested

Endoscient · 04/15/09, 7:10 AM

Originally Posted by Hylo

Latest build (2.2.0.7) gives me 4,77% crit from 298 agility - or at least that's what the tooltip says. When I checked wowwiki, requirement for 1% crit is 52,08 agi for paladins at lvl80.

On the other hand new US armory gave a paladin 7,63% crit from 227 agility (tooltip again).

As you can see none of these numbers match so what's the deal here? Is Rawr module giving too little crit from agi or are the others incorrect? (I did shuffle quite some pieces around to get hitcapped, but according to rawr my crit% has dropped by almost 5,5%... too bad can't check how it is on live yet)

Totally ignore that tooltip in Rawr, its totally inaccurate.

Paul · 04/15/09, 6:00 PM

2.2.0.8 Optimizer still producing inferior sets to the ones I find.

Retribution Profile - Ulduar
Ret Profile - Current Gear

Rawr finds ~5340 in my current gear profile. Mine is @ 5362.

Similar issue with Ulduar gear equipped.

I've checked to make sure I have all the options checked off multiple times.

Same result happens whether I have "override regem/reenchant" checked or not. Not sure those options actually do anything. I read "override regem" as disabling regemming, though I think it's supposed to be the opposite.

I'm also getting the most dps out of the rotation by putting Consecration first (cons > how > judge > divine storm > cs > exorcism on Humanoids). Makes no sense to me.

I notice mongoose popping up in weapon chants. Is it properly modeled, though?

Endoscient · 04/15/09, 10:04 PM

For bugs with the optimizer please post them in the main Rawr thread, or over at the Codeplex site, as it isn't an issue with the Retribution model, but the overall program.

It is possible to mark certain items as available to the optimizer, but only with their current gemming and/or enchant. Selecting override regem/reenchant ignores those options and we test out regemmed/reenchanted pieces.

Yes Moongoose is modelled properly. Why would you think that it isn't? It even says in its tooltip the effect it is providing.

Personally with one of the files I tested, I get CS > HoW > Judge > DS > Cons > Exo as 5653 dps, and Cons > HoW > Judge > DS > CS > Exo as 5562 dps. That could definitely change with gear though, and that is the point of having the rotation simulator instead of hard coded effective cooldowns.

kharen · 04/16/09, 9:26 AM

Same result happens whether I have "override regem/reenchant" checked or not. Not sure those options actually do anything. I read "override regem" as disabling regemming, though I think it's supposed to be the opposite.

Ctrl-clicking a diamond next to an item will fill it in blue, and then only that particular gemming of the item will be considered in the optimizer, unless you check "override regem". Handy for optimizing a set from an existing collection of gear you have if you can't afford to/don't want to regem it (I mostly use it for building specialized tanking sets where they may be significant overlap and regemming items repeatedly isn't an option; not so useful for ret where you basically have one single set and want it to be as good as possible).

Endoscient · 04/16/09, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Paul

2.2.0.8 Optimizer still producing inferior sets to the ones I find.

Retribution Profile - Ulduar
Ret Profile - Current Gear

Rawr finds ~5340 in my current gear profile. Mine is @ 5362.

I tried to reproduce this myself, and while at first I was getting similar results to you. When I put the thoroughness to max the optimizer was returning 5,362 for me.