Ret FCFS Rotation Helper - Page 2

Fisker · 04/13/09, 2:36 AM

Originally Posted by greatrichie

I like the fact that you can set the priorities. Future proofs it a little bit. I also wouldn;t midn seeing a SS/DP type icon, but.. I think it may start to clutter it up.

I didn't mean it should be hardcoded of course

So for example it includes the 3.1 suggested priority when 3.1 is released, and the user gets prompted if he wants to use that instead, as it's recommended, if for any reason this changes, either due to new information or a new patch, then a new version with the new priority system is recommended.

Thaeryn · 04/13/09, 11:13 AM

My issue with hardcoding any kind of preset priority, is that it can still be different from one person to the next. I've done a LOT of theorycrafting on the optimum FCFS rotation, and this is just a tool I used to help real world testing of different priorities. Things like your tier bonus or libram can definitely impact your priority list. Even things as simple as having an add pop out on the boss. For this reason, I wanted to make this addon hold as few hands as possible. It's a tool that should be primarily used for target dummy practice, or a quick way back into your optimum rotation if you had to run from the boss or change targets for a moment.

I know it will be used for more than that, but I don't really want to go down that road with the development. I've been considering options for the DS/SS timer as well. I've discussed that a little in the WoW Interface comments section and one of the users there recommended this addon for SS timing:

WatchSacredShield: WatchSacredShield - Addons - Curse

I don't raid on a ret paladin and just theorycraft for a friend, so I'm not aware of the finer points of using SS or DS on raid bosses... if someone could give me a quick overview, and how the addon could help you with it, then I can look it over and see if it's something I'd like to put in.

Also, as far as only being enabled on bosses... I can look into it as an option. I'm not immediately aware of an easy way to tell the difference between bosses and trash though.

Fisker · 04/13/09, 12:42 PM

Well sure i have no need for presets, just think it would be a general good idea, infact you could make preset support so people can make their own presets as well and easily switch between them.

Sacred Shield/Divine Plea might be a bit much, but the idea with Divine Plea is that you might sometimes use it to early, for example you may get 2-3 judgements in the duration DP lasts, and then it's kinda silly if those judgements keeps maxing your mana.

Anyways for bosses you should take a look at this: UnitClassification - World of Warcraft Programming: A Guide and Reference for Creating WoW Addons

Raidbosses are classified as "WorldBoss"

Thaeryn · 04/13/09, 4:31 PM

Thanks for the info on Raid bosses. That should be simple enough to add in as an option.

With the presets... that can probably be done with just the standard "Profiles" option that the majority of addons use. Shouldn't be an issue to add, so I'll take a look into it.

I'll add the boss only option to the todo and see if I can get that in the next version. Let me know if you have any other suggestions or ideas. Try to keep suggestions focused on polish and usability of current features though. I'm a big fan of small addons that do exactly what I want them to do, rather than a big addon that does lots of stuff I want and some stuff I don't.

Thanks for all the ideas so far. Keep them coming.

• frmorrison · 04/13/09, 6:10 PM

While having a Plea or SS reminder is nice, you would have to code in a few conditions to make it worthwhile.

With SS you want to refresh it whenever all your dps abilities are on cooldown, and time left on SS is 15 seconds or less.

Plea you pop whenever your mana is less than 75% and all dps abilities are on cooldown.

Thaeryn · 04/13/09, 6:15 PM

Hm... both of those things are within the scope of this addon. I can go ahead and add those in with an option to enable them or disable them in the options. I'm still not keen on the idea of putting up cooldown timers for them, as that's something better handled by another addon. Recommending spell usage based on your other ability cooldowns is what this addon is all about though.

In the case that the conditionals for both SS and DP are met, which would take priority? Would it be a matter of mana? Let's say... all abilities are on cooldown, mana is at 70%, time left on SS is 10 seconds. Recommend SS?

Same situation, this time you are at 30% mana though. Recommend DP instead?

Let me know and I'll see if I can tack that on.

Ranjurm · 04/14/09, 7:33 AM

Why not allow people to choose which they want to be prioritized via a togglable setting? On most fights you will want to prioritize DP over SS but there will be some where you will want SS to be up as much as possible.

Thaeryn · 04/14/09, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Ranjurm

Why not allow people to choose which they want to be prioritized via a togglable setting? On most fights you will want to prioritize DP over SS but there will be some where you will want SS to be up as much as possible.

Special settings are nice, but I can never fill every need there. I prefer to still leave it up to the player to modify their priority to fit the needs of a specific fight. This mod is based off of a feral druid addon called Face Mauler. It does basically the exact same thing. I don't use Face Mauler while raiding though... it's too static. There are too many situations. Yes, I'm saying that if I raided on a Ret Paladin, I wouldn't even use my own addon. This addon fills a very nice niche for a large majority of ret paladins though. When writing this addon, I had target dummies in mind, not bosses. The extra features for bosses were something I threw in to make the mod a lot more useful for the majority of people without cluttering it up. I'd like to keep that fairly simple approach to it.

If you find that your needs go a bit beyond what this mod offers, check out Event Horizon. I use this mod for raiding on my feral druid, my affliction warlock, and leveling my alt paladin. It takes out the handholding but gives you the information in a better format than just cooldown timers.

Arthaal · 04/14/09, 12:04 PM

I think the priority of DP over SS will probably depend on the mana regen situation we're faced with in Ulduar. Early tests indicate we shouldn't be struggling for mana (most likely mana positive with a basic rotation and all raid buffs/debuffs), so, in a 25-man raid, I'd probably prioritize SS over DP - especially given that the conditional on SS is 15s remaining duration.

Gaps in the rotation should come up every 20-30 odd seconds in a FCFS setup, so prioritizing SS should guarantee it's up 95% of the time. On the other hand waiting on DP should still leave you with 70% of it's peak mana return. Also, a dead paladin deals no damage and SS is worth quite a lot of mitigation from AoE... if you find yourself running mana negative, you should have a minute or two to realize this and prioritize DP for yourself.

Ranjurm · 04/14/09, 6:26 PM

There is the issue of mana regen outside of perfect 25 man settings. There are a lot mana regen buffs you are liable to be missing outside of 25 mans.

Arthaal · 04/14/09, 7:47 PM

Which is precisely why I specified 25 mans... In 10 mans, 5 mans, I'd probably want to prioritize DP, but without seeing the true state of mana return when the realms go live it's tough to say whether it'll be necessary or not. 70% DP return might be more than enough to keep going in all but the longer fights.

Delita · 04/14/09, 7:55 PM

If you don't mind, maybe just have it say "Extra GCD" when there's time for one, allowing the player to decide what to do with it, whether it be an AoW FoL, SS or DP etc.

Yozshurah · 04/15/09, 5:58 AM

I might be wrong, but I thought AW FoL resets swing timer?

vorda · 04/15/09, 6:03 AM

Originally Posted by Yozshurah

I might be wrong, but I thought AW FoL resets swing timer?

They fixed that this patch.

Exemplar · 04/15/09, 8:49 AM

Just a suggestion - just increase the priority list 2 slots and let people throw DP and SS in where desired (hopefully the last two priorities in either combination). Then a setting for when to care about SS (you don't want to be told to refresh it 5 seconds after you just refreshed it) - i.e. buff must be under X seconds. That once again takes the intelligence out of the mod (having it determine which and when to use DP and SS) and leaves it nice and simple as you already have it designed.