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Old 04/16/09, 11:41 AM   #166
gmedina
Banned
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Gnomeregan
Originally Posted by flexbutt View Post
What? No one's talking about improved Devotion Aura. Divinity is the talent of discussion.
Yah improves healing done to you and by you by like 5% or something of the sort. My understanding is that it doesn't stack with the druid aura, or am I completly bonkers here?

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Old 04/16/09, 11:50 AM   #167
jgRnt
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Stormscale (EU)
Originally Posted by gmedina View Post
Yah improves healing done to you and by you by like 5% or something of the sort. My understanding is that it doesn't stack with the druid aura, or am I completly bonkers here?
You're right, it does not stack with druids aura.

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Old 04/16/09, 11:53 AM   #168
smafdi
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Stormreaver
It's Imp Devotion aura that doesn't stack with the Druid aura. Divinity stacks with anything and everything.

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Old 04/16/09, 11:58 AM   #169
flexbutt
Sergeant Grumbles
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by jgRnt View Post
You're right, it does not stack with druids aura.
This is incorrect as Divinity is a self buff while Imp Devotion Aura is a raid buff, and as such is the one that does not stack with Treeform.

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Old 04/16/09, 12:03 PM   #170
TheEnder
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Stormreaver
Yes, I know I am under-hit. I foolishly passed on all that hit gear in naxx-10. :P

Dug up the titansteel helm from my bank for boss attempts and took the ring off deconstructor last night. Should put me back where I need to be for now on hit.

I completely seemed to go brain dead when I was running my numbers and didn't take into account the double-dip and as such didn't realize we needed hit cap again. GG.

That should help with my numbers quite a bit; looking back over WWS I had almost 4% total misses on all my abilities. Talk about a wake-up call. Though I am still surprised I did the damage I did, even with those high misses, last night.

Hoping to be staring Yogg in his ugly mug tonight. ;-) Thanks for the tips all.

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Old 04/16/09, 12:17 PM   #171
gmedina
Banned
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Gnomeregan
Originally Posted by flexbutt View Post
This is incorrect as Divinity is a self buff while Imp Devotion Aura is a raid buff, and as such is the one that does not stack with Treeform.
Ahhhhh, well crap i didn't realize that, oh well time to respec again, thx for the help.

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Old 04/16/09, 12:28 PM   #172
Mahdrid
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Suramar
Hi. Long time listener, first time caller. So, for the guilds that have hit ulduar - how have we been doing, competitively speaking? My gear is pretty solid, given all of the parameters here (just barely below hit and EXP cap) - assuming I do a good job, can I expect to still have competitive DPS? I tried to seek out some WWS reports, but haven't found any yet for Ulduar runs. Some have said we took a hit, others said we are a little better than before, and still others say the latter, but add that most everyone else took a big leap forward.

Is there enough data at present to say what's what?

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Old 04/16/09, 12:38 PM   #173
TheEnder
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Stormreaver
From my own experience... we do fairly competitive. Rogues, feral druids, hunters, and warlocks beat me almost all the time except for certain fight situations or based on their job. (Deconstructor and Hodir for instance... I just nuke!)

I'm rounding out top 5 usually, or at least close.

Just minor notes for anyone who cares to read them:

Hit and expertise are huge now; most of our damage is from seals and white combined. Which means we scale better with haste than we did before.

The thing that is really starting to annoy me?

Every upgrade you take is probably going to hurt you somewhere until you get more gear.

It seems EVERY piece of gear I have that I could replace would lose crit, hit, or expertise in order to gain elsewhere. it's like all the gear with hit/haste on it is being replaced with crit/expertise... and vice versa. My crit dropped 4% after the items I got last night but my haste went up 5% and my hit is almost capped. I need alot more expertise but that'll come soon enough.

Just be prepared to take some deductions in crit for a while until you start to round out your gear.

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Old 04/16/09, 2:01 PM   #174
Landos
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Garithos
In reply to the previous posters statement, I'm finding myself going hugely over the hit cap, picking up pieces of gear from ulduar. Part of that is my weapon, since our KT never dropped a single betrayer for us, ever, and I'm still whiffing with a death's bite. But overall, I'm finding that I am trading crit for hit & str, which once I start getting some t8 should sort itself out. In the meantime, The libram from razorscale dropped last night, and as the only ret paladin in the raid, I got it. I don't have the deadly libram, so it's between 235 dmg on DS, and the libram of radiance which is +144 dmg to CS. Dividing the +dmg by the cd's, it looks like the ulduar libram is 23.5 dps, and the Naxx25 one is 24 dps. Is there some way in which the talent modifiers affect this seemingly simple additive bonus dmg, or is it just a really awful (for its ilvl) libram?

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Old 04/16/09, 2:02 PM   #175
Musclebound
Von Kaiser
 
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Orc Warrior
 
Mal'Ganis
I'm curious to know other players' experiences with Divine Sacrifice thus far in raiding; currently I've been a little gun-shy do to being relatively new to the atmosphere of Ulduar. On Razorscale, as an experiential example, there seemed to be a lot of thoughtless ways of avoiding raid damage (don't stand in fire, stun adds, wait for aggro, typical things for the most part) and yet it seemed like a lot of players were dying regardless. I've been torn between focusing purely on my role as a DPS class and considering my role as a support build in order to keep the raid alive with Divine Shield + Divine Sacrifice. Has anyone else used this talent effectively in a raiding situation since the patch?

Inner Rage: the Warrior becomes Enraged after realizing she is too Angry.

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Old 04/16/09, 2:31 PM   #176
Sacramental
Glass Joe
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Vashj
Originally Posted by Musclebound View Post
Has anyone else used this talent effectively in a raiding situation since the patch?
I've used it on flame trash, and on Deconstructor during tantrums but I'm unable to use it without another sheild atm.

And I'm finding Divinity, JoL, Sacred Sheild, and insta FoL to be Huge, I'm always near top damage taken but so far the improvements have been keeping me topped, imo USE Sacred Shield!

I wanted to throw in my spec,
19/52
Our guild is working on Razor and Deconstructor, I'm finding the imp hammer great for adds on razor, and since HoF doesn't work during tantrum on Deconstructor, I've skipped it's imp talents.

Avitus, Exemplar, Zurm, Redcape, frmorrison, - Thanks for all the discussion - it's helped us all. And I'm looking for more.

Are you 100% sure that BS/JC are two best profs?

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Old 04/16/09, 2:56 PM   #177
TheEnder
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Stormreaver
I love divine sacrifice... gives a nice utility buff. Only problem is it nukes our damage pretty heavily because you more or less HAVE to bubble during the effects.

I've used it successfully during deconstructor tantrums, auyulia pull (goddamn cat lady), hodir, and during ignis.

It's just more utility we can bring.

@above poster

I really wish I had imp hammer to help with interrupts more; but getting imp might is probably better for your raid. Most holy palys aren't going to get ret anymore (or if they do it's dual specced with the prot build. Imp might is still a great buff.

Additionally... whats up with your glyphs? Seal of R, DP, and blood? Just wondering about the logic behind those.

(I use judgement, concecration, exorcism personally.)

My spec: Ret (17/54)

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Old 04/16/09, 2:59 PM   #178
flexbutt
Sergeant Grumbles
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Sacramental View Post

Are you 100% sure that BS/JC are two best profs?
The numbers on the OP suggest that they are. Are you offering that there is a superior alternative? They are superior simply because they allow you to increase your strength instead of attack power. (BS allows 32 str instead of 64ap from the others). This is not to mention that bypassing meta gem requirements puts JC above and beyond.

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Old 04/16/09, 3:16 PM   #179
 frmorrison
Protector
 
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Ashstrike
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by TheEnder View Post
I really wish I had imp hammer to help with interrupts more; but getting imp might is probably better for your raid. Most holy palys aren't going to get ret anymore (or if they do it's dual specced with the prot build. Imp might is still a great buff.
Since Hammer is on the GCD I find it hard to interrupt with Hammer, and other people like Rogues and DKs have it off the GCD so they can handle it most of the time. Other classes have stuns to deal with adds, like Prot Warrior, Unholy DK, Rogues, Feral Druid, etc., so imp HoJ is not so great if you have these classes around.

The "top" Holy Pallies have a Prot sub-spec and a Ret sub-spec, so they could bless imp Might then spec swap to Prot. The only downsides are the Holy loses imp Might and the whole mana bar.

I like to have imp Might because even if a Holy is covering it, it is great to have more AP when soloing/PvP.

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Old 04/16/09, 3:30 PM   #180
smafdi
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Stormreaver
From what I remember if you swap specs and lose an improved buff talent, that buff gets removed from everyone you cast it on. I'm at work atm so I can't test, but will when i get home.

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