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04/14/09, 2:57 AM
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#16
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Von Kaiser
Tauren Paladin
Lightbringer
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Strength
-Stat weight: 1.70
Still our best DPS stat, as we have various talents that multiply it's effect. 1 STR gives you 2 AP baseline, multiplied by 1.15 from Divine Strength (Tier 1 Prot) giving us 2.3 AP per STR when specced. This number is further affected by buffs such as BoK. You should gemming STR after you are hitcapped.
Hit See Observations
-Stat weight: ~1.6 until capped
32.8 rating gives you 1% hit. At level 80, we require 263 hit rating, or 8%, to be hit capped on white swings, specials, and judgements. Note that Exorcism and Consecration are considered spells and use the spell hit table, thus we can still miss with these abilities. As of 3.1 hit cap is very important, and quite a bit easier to attain - you need to be hitcapped in order to maximize your dps. Hit is as good as STR until you are hitcapped, and then becomes worthless after the cap, so gear appropriately.
Expertise
-Stat weight: ~1.3 until capped
Introduced in late BC, this stat allows us to remove dodges from the attack table when attacking from behind, as melee often does! You need 26 Expertise (214 rating, 6.5%) to cap this stat; much like hit, any expertise after the cap is wasted. Capping this stat is a significant dps increase vs uncapped (or none at all) as it affects our whites, strikes, and SoB. You ideally want to cap this stat alongside hit, but it may not be possible without gimping other stats in 3.1 - just like hit, any expertise beyond the cap is wasted and useless.
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You say that hit (and maybe expertise) are better to cap before going straight for STR. However, in your weightings, it shows that hit is inferior to STR still, and would therefore show that gaining hit is worse than gaining an equivalent amount of STR. I do understand the argument that hit and expertise are more important to cap before gemming/enchanting STR, but your weightings show otherwise. Maybe they need to be updated?
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04/14/09, 3:13 AM
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#17
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Piston Honda
Blood Elf Paladin
Dunemaul (EU)
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Hit rating comes out considerably better than strength when using Redcape's (207 vs 156) and Rawr (2.12 vs 1.61) until the cap. Also in both cases exp in only just under strenght (151 using Redcape's and 1.53 using Rawr). Exemplar's looks to be similar when changing around gear, but it doesn't do stat weights so I can't say for sure.
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04/14/09, 4:40 AM
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#18
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Piston Honda
Human Paladin
Lightbringer
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Exemplar's sheet does do stat weights, it just doesn't display them in the same way. If you run the graph, stats display at the top of the first sheet, giving you how much of each stat you need to be equivalent to 1 Str. To compare to Rawr / Redcape, take Rawr or Redcape's value for STR and divide that number by Exemplar's stat weighting to get an equivalency stat weighting that you can use to compare the three tools.
As a note, all 3 tools have relatively similar weightings now -- hit >> str > expertise below caps. Hit food should be listed, since you should use that instead of str food if you are significantly below cap.
Partial resists to consecration are unavoidable but also relatively uncommon; most full "resists" of ticks are misses due to not enough hit (not that hit is worth very much beyond melee hit cap).
ArPen is not buffed properly on the last version of the PTR, hopefully they fix it soon on live 3.1
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04/14/09, 5:19 AM
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#19
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Piston Honda
Human Paladin
Kor'gall (EU)
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I very much doubt ArPen will ever be something to consider for us, as we have too many spells that ignore it completely. If they buff it enough for it to matter to us, it would be redicilously overpowered for Warriors, unless they find some way to create a double dip situation (somehow affecting our spells).
Nice topic, easier for people to get updated without having to read 100+ pages. Hopefully, the owner will update the first post constantly as new information becomes available.
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04/14/09, 5:44 AM
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#20
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Soda Popinski
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I don't think it would be that hard at all to give us more benefit from ArPen at all. Take a look at what they did to haste, only certain classes got an improved bonus from it. If the devs really wanted to they could just simply say paladins gain an extra 35% from ArPen instead of all the other classes who only gain 25% increase.
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04/14/09, 7:05 AM
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#21
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Glass Joe
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Excellent summary Arikah, it's nice not having to read a novel just to find out whats happening with the patch.
Originally Posted by TheBacon
I don't think it would be that hard at all to give us more benefit from ArPen at all. Take a look at what they did to haste, only certain classes got an improved bonus from it. If the devs really wanted to they could just simply say paladins gain an extra 35% from ArPen instead of all the other classes who only gain 25% increase.
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Personally I wouldn't mind haste/ArPen being so horrible for Ret, except that Blizz keeps putting it on our gear. It really annoyed me that while the bonus on the 4pt7 was awesome, the itemization of the required pieces wasn't... Luckly from the lists I've seen, best 3.1 in slot only includes 2pt8 and the chest and hands give hit/exp respectively.
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04/14/09, 7:23 AM
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#22
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Soda Popinski
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I don't mind it either I was just trying to point out that it wouldn't be too hard to give us more gain from it if the devs wanted to. The only problem with us only getting decent benefit from so few stats is that items will be imperfectly itemized or will be stacked with non-diverse, capped stats. Haste has improved quite a bit though as it is almost up there with crit now in terms of dps value.
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04/14/09, 8:24 AM
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#23
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Druid
Proudmoore
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Nice write up Arikah!
Regarding the Engineering glove enchants. Are these at least 'competitive' with the straight AP enchant? i.e. Will I be loosing a lot of DPS if I go with rockets or haste because I'd rather not drop Engineering and I'd like to think it's actually usefull for something? I vaguely recall reading in the previous thread that the haste enchant is at least a viable alternative, is this still the case?
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04/14/09, 9:06 AM
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#24
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Von Kaiser
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According to Rawr, the new incarnation of the Hand Mounted Pyro Rocket is worth around 15 more dps than the Hyperspeed Accelerators, and nearly 30 more than Crusher. That said, using rawr, if I drop down to crusher and add ring enchants (baseline "other" profession bonus) I gain a total of 13dps over Engineering bonuses. Up to you if that's "competitive".
Edit: It should be noted that Hyperspeed Acclerators will scale with gear, though I don't think they will surpass the Rocket until the next round of ilvls (post Ulduar).
Last edited by sepirion : 04/14/09 at 11:43 AM.
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04/14/09, 9:58 AM
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#25
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The Ultimate in /facepalm Technology
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Your stat weights are off. It was determined that pre-cap in 3.1, hit > exp > str (not 100% sure about the rest). Both the spreadsheets and Rawr agree on this. Plus, giving actual weightings is misleading, as gear differences can alter this dramatically. Perhaps just put a general priority?
Edit: Forgot to mention, great job overall!
Last edited by Zurm : 04/14/09 at 10:22 AM.
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Back, semi-casual, and proud of it.
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04/14/09, 10:00 AM
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#26
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Bald Bull
Human Paladin
Scarlet Crusade
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New version of the Bellator's Spreadsheet has been released.
Available: Here or Here
It's set for 3.1 Live. Other tweaks, improvements, and bug fixes as expected. Gear is only as up to date as I'm aware, which includes all the Str itemization changes which were listed on MMO-Champion.
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Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."
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04/14/09, 11:25 AM
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#27
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Glass Joe
Draenei Paladin
Lightninghoof
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any chance at getting a list of say top 3 best in slot pieces? I use a mac and the "mac option" for RAWR generally hates me.
Also I've been playing around with lootrank.com and while the documentation for that site is fairly decent, the numbers always seem a bit off for which item is better than another. I would appreciate any help that can be provided.
Thanks!
EDIT: I know it's still early yet in this thread's life.
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04/14/09, 11:29 AM
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#28
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The Ultimate in /facepalm Technology
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There's still a lot of loot that has yet to be discovered, if you're talking about ulduar loot. As for existing loot, try to make due with what you have, but get hit/expertise capped.
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Back, semi-casual, and proud of it.
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04/14/09, 11:39 AM
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#29
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Druid
Proudmoore
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Originally Posted by sepirion
According to Rawr, the new incarnation of the Hand Mounted Pyro Rocket is worth around 15 more dps than the Hyperspeed Accelerators, and nearly 30 more than Crusher. That said, using rawr, if I drop down to crusher and add ring enchants (baseline "other" profession bonus) I gain a total of 13dps over Engineering bonuses. Up to you if that's "competitive".
Edit: It should be noted that Hyperspeed Acclerators will scale with gear, though I don't think they will surpass the Rocket until the next round of ilvls (post Uldura).
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Thanks Sepirion, this is what I was looking for. I'm not so much concerned about how Eng compares to other professions but more on how it compars to a more conventional gear enhancement (enchanting, armour kits, etc).
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04/14/09, 12:12 PM
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#30
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Banned
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So pretty much I should change out as many str gems as i can to hit/expertise until they're both capped?
I'm a JC/BS so it seems like the easiest way to make this transition.
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