I'm probably only one of the few who actually liked the way SoB worked prior to the patch with the recoil. I mean - one of the best things the devs could do would be to rethink how recoil works as it relates to our overall dps. Both from a pvp and pve point of view. In fact, right now is probably the best time to look at it since sacred shield is actually working like it is supposed to.
Tieing the whole judgements and seals together with recoil damage sort of allow the player to decide when to use what ability. You want burst - sure, here you go. However, there is a cost associated when you do that. In fact, go ahead and do it as often as your cool downs allow - but at the rist of personal injury. Now you might say what about LoH or DS - well, those are again tied to cool downs which you can manage via forbearance or timers.
Utility is great. Putting the onus on the player to select which utility to use based on the situration is actually a great idea - to me anyway. There is cause, there is effect. Risk. Reward. In the end - back to back burst or survivabilty comes with a price in which case the Paladin has to choose.
Not sure if any of you every played Warhammer but they actually had a great idea like this tied to the bright wizards and combustion. And the classes dps was directly related to their combustion level. The side effect though was that combustion levels got higher so did the damage the wizard took in turn. Sure - healers and support one could dance around the danager - but it was not umcommon to kill oneself going for that extra killing blow.
A paladin using the old seal of blood in pvp while judged had great potential - but the recoild did as well. So tell me how many here who used that combo instead of SoC used it to the death? With those big hits came a very big risk if one was solo...
It was nerfed, adjusted, whatever, because it was abused in PvP. The risk was easy to mitigate with a healer. Double dps teams danced around it because something was killed quick enough so the paladin could recover by healing.
There was no risk high enough to grant the use. We cheated and therefore beat the system. Only to have the system come down and fix it. Same thing will more than likely happen to sacred shield in my opinion because it is just working too good...
Just my rant anyway. I like the idea of recoil damage. I also like choices. Risk, reward, cause, effect.
Currently the whole system has no risk like it did before. And SoC is utterly useless. I don't want something some other class has. Recoil would be one thing that puts us in our own league. And we should be smart enough to know when to use what seal, etc. We already did that on Thaddius for one example.
Ok for one Humanoid is not the tpe of mob in ulduar. So set it to other aka giants.
Two many profession items are missing from Rawr try checking for Belt of the titans on wowhead and adding it
Also Items like Frigid str of hodir and some of our t8 need to have their stats and socket bonuses updated as of the latest version of rawr
Sif's promise needed to have its str amount updated manually for me as well. If you change these things around then your number should be different
For example I am showing the new craftable LW boots as BIS and the new craftable plate belt as BIS as well. I wont post an entire new set of gear now because things will change once new items have been discovered.
Please dont do things like give yourself the buff "focus magic" etc because those are not guranteed raid buffs. Also giving yourself the dk enchant was kinda a fail idea as well. These numbers when you post them became irrelevant because the gear is obviously being biased by buffs you will not have
The DK rune enchant and the 7(!) professions were used by me just to prove to him that it's impossible to get ~7,100 DPS in current gear and that he apparently does something wrong. Of course I know it's unrealistic to have 7 professions and a RotFC as a Ret Paladin.
Currently the whole system has no risk like it did before. And SoC is utterly useless. I don't want something some other class has. Recoil would be one thing that puts us in our own league. And we should be smart enough to know when to use what seal, etc. We already did that on Thaddius for one example.
What was so special about Thaddius and how was it different from any other fight in Naxx regarding seals?
What was so special about Thaddius and how was it different from any other fight in Naxx regarding seals?
You did more damage, and therefore took more damage from recoil, without an appropriate increase in health or mitigation.
Mechanics like Gluth's decimate, which are predictable, are fine. You simply don't judge until you get a heal, and lose a small amount of DPS. Random raid damage which coupled with recoil would be lethal isn't fine, and forces you to either risk death or drastically lower DPS, neither of which is attractive.
The seal's fine as it is now, with the recoil being shifted from judgement to the seal, and sacred shield becoming a very useful ability for helping to mitigate it. There are plenty of other ways to challenge DPS and make them consider damage versus survival, without tying it to specific class abilities.
A latent appliance fetishist is someone who refuses to admit to his or herself that sexual gratification can only be achieved through the use of machines.
- L. Ron Hoover
i almost created my BiS gear with Stealbreaker Embrace because i was ,,lucky,, today and get Tier8 Legs. And after i realized those legs are actually kilt. I survived hard times with my retadin but kilt is too much really.
And also, does Libram of Discord worth to get it ? Crusader strike is first priority on 6secs CD and libram adds 140 damage (thats what my tooltip says) while Divine storm effective CD is arround 12secs and adds 235 damage. Its better on aoe situations but it seems its worst on single target.
i almost created my BiS gear with Stealbreaker Embrace because i was ,,lucky,, today and get Tier8 Legs. And after i realized those legs are actually kilt. I survived hard times with my retadin but kilt is too much really.
And also, does Libram of Discord worth to get it ? Crusader strike is first priority on 6secs CD and libram adds 140 damage (thats what my tooltip says) while Divine storm effective CD is arround 12secs and adds 235 damage. Its better on aoe situations but it seems its worst on single target.
You will learn to love the Kilt (because it is part of our BiS).
Discord > the CS libram. However, the Deadly libram (you can get for 1300ish rating and some points) is better than both.
Remember that the damage bonus is affected by all the % modifiers.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
You will learn to love the Kilt (because it is part of our BiS).
Discord > the CS libram. However, the Deadly libram (you can get for 1300ish rating and some points) is better than both.
Remember that the damage bonus is affected by all the % modifiers.
Actually, at least from what I'm getting as the best gear setup with rawr, Plated Leggings of Ruination - Item - World of Warcraft might be the best piece to go with our 4piece bonus.. It has no hit, and neither does the t8 helm, so it frees our other slots to provide it for us.
GC just mentioned a possible direction for our FCFS dilemma:
We like the new Seal / Judgement system and aren't likely to mess with that. What we would like to do is take say CS, DS and Exorcism, make one of them have no cooldown, and make the others something you want to do at the right time. Here are some dumb, mostly fake examples. They all have problems and aren't very original (because I spent all of 20 sec thinking of them) but are in the right vein. We have some actual ideas but aren't ready to share them yet.
1) Your Crusader Strike stacks something on a target. Divine Storm then does more damage per stack (but consumes the stacks?).
2) Your Divine Storm has a dot component. The closer you get a Crusader Strike to the final dot, the more damage it does, but its cooldown keeps you from spamming it.
3) When someone under the effect of your Retribution Aura (or whatever) is attacked, your Divine Storm lights up and you can then make them pay for the affront.
4) Your Divine Storm has a dot component with a very short duration. However Crusader Strike has no cooldown and extends the duration by one tick. Basically you have to hit CS three or four times in a row quickly to keep the whirlwind spinning.
What I would like to see in the ret changes, more than anything else, is some form of cycle. Somewhat short, repeatable, not requiring our face being burried in the action bars. While they are at it, make it more fun than that, and have proc-based events (eclipse or arms overpower mechanics come to mind) to make actual skill at WoW matter, not just skill at whack-a-mole. I hope if blizzard takes nothing else out of the recommendations they get, they understand this.
When I played my DK, or ret pre-3.0, I had a cycle. I knew what abilities were up from my combat log text, not from my action bars.
This actually made me laugh. I was thinking along those same lines the other day in Ulduar. I'm glad I'm not the only one spending a bit too much time staring at bars because of cooldowns - I pay attention to the fight in order to see when to move and so on, but other than that I'm completely absorbed by the CDs. It would be good if we finally got a more "standard" rotation, perhaps with a little variation from time to time (i.e some skills triggering from porcs, like free Howling Blast for Frost DKs).
Originally Posted by Piiqo
Actually, at least from what I'm getting as the best gear setup with rawr, Plated Leggings of Ruination - Item - World of Warcraft might be the best piece to go with our 4piece bonus.. It has no hit, and neither does the t8 helm, so it frees our other slots to provide it for us.
Hmm, really? Unless hit capped, I'd say Warhelm of the Champion + T8.25 Gloves, Leggings, Chest, Shoulders is the best setup. Probably depends on the rest of the gear though, as the hit is wasted if you're above the cap.
Edit: aylen86
Interesting post by GC! Seems like we might be getting more DKish mechanics. I don't mind at all, DKs are quite fun to play, and their rotations are generally more intuitive than ours.
I've to say, that I'm currently a little bit confused about how everyone is rating the Wrathstone as a possible best in slot trinket, for me I did some calculations, between the [Wrathstone] and the comparable [Mirror of Truth]
First, let's compare the passive critical stike rating on both items, we have the
108 vs. 84 critical strike rating on the Mirror = On the passive side the Wrathstone is +24 critical strike rating superior to the mirror.
But now lets have a look at the exciting point:
The procc of the Wrathstone gives you 856 AP (on use) for 20 seconds with 2 minute cooldown, means you can use it manually but ideally 20s/120s = 1/6 of the combat. This gives you a "flat AP bonus" of ~143 AP
Of course the procc of Mirror of Truth is not "on use", but it has a very high procchance of 10% after passing the inner cooldown of 45s-50s, means you have to make at least 10 attacks in 10-15 seconds to have a very realistic chance of getting 1 procc every minute = 10s/60s = 1/6 uptime. So you can calculate this proc down the same way, I did it with the Wrathstone and you will get a "flat AP bonus" of ~167 AP
So 143 AP versus 167 AP for the Mirror means = ~24 AP more for the Mirror of Truth
Maybe I am totally wrong with this calculation, but as far as I see the Mirror of truth (which turned out to be inferior to trinkets like the Darkmooncard and the Fury of the Five Flights) is very close to the quality of the Wrathstone, so I cannot really understand, why the Wrathstone is included in nearly every Ulduar gear compilation here.
(please excuse me for my english, I tried my best, but I'm not a native speaker)
Hmm, really? Unless hit capped, I'd say Warhelm of the Champion + T8.25 Gloves, Leggings, Chest, Shoulders is the best setup. Probably depends on the rest of the gear though, as the hit is wasted if you're above the cap.
On first glance, the Warhelm of the Champion with its 69hit rating does seem to be a good choice, but if you think about it a little more, perhaps not. When you are struggling not to go over the hit cap and waste all those itemization points on hit, here's an example:
If you wear the T8 helm instead of [Warhelm of the Champion], and use [Plated Leggings of Ruination] instead of T8, according to my weightings that looses you 164dps and 15dps respectively, but it also frees up 127hit rating. Say for example you are wearing the hit helm and to stay under the hit cap you are having to wear the KT neck and cloak (neither have hit on). Now if you swap out the hit helm for T8, then that also means you can now wear the BiS neck and cloak from Ulduar, which are dps upgrades of 86dps and 119dps respectively, while still having ~47spare hit to play with.
NB. The weights I used are derived from Redcape's sheet using a Ulduar BiS setup.
Moby, Wrathstone is superior mainly because you can control when the effect is applied, and its cooldown coincides with the cooldown on Avenging Wrath, hence you have absolute on-demand burst, whilst with the Mirror it may proc during inoppurtune moments where you have to move out of dps range as such.
The 'dumb and fake' examples posted by GC remind alot of combo points, like the drakes on Malygos, which may not seem to far fetched to apply to us since our mana regen is now 'near infinite' just like energy. Stack up points/debuffs, and some abilities consume the stacks as appropriate. Like most of GC's examples though, if all our abilities are still tied to cooldowns, the bonus damage from such a system will merely be supplementary to what we dish out from smashing cooldowns and we will still be locked in a FCFS with minor caveats. Removing a CD on a dps ability may lead to busrt issues in PVP, but will mix things up in PVE such that we will have 'set' rotations ala rogues.
Moby, Wrathstone is superior mainly because you can control when the effect is applied, and its cooldown coincides with the cooldown on Avenging Wrath, hence you have absolute on-demand burst, whilst with the Mirror it may proc during inoppurtune moments where you have to move out of dps range as such.
But I think that this point isn't really a pure advantage, because controlling the proc means postponing it and lowering the uptime even more, this needs to be kept in mind, if you evaluate it. A trinket like the [Fury of the Five Flights], for example has an even more consequent uptime of much more AP. Of course the [Mirror of Truth] was just an example of where I think the [Wrathstone] is in terms of dps gains. I didn't really mean, that the Mirror is the best choice, because from my point of view it's definitely not the best choice, and exactly that is the point, I was wondering, everyone wants to wear the Wrathstone in his Ulduar compilation.
You did more damage, and therefore took more damage from recoil, without an appropriate increase in health or mitigation.
Mechanics like Gluth's decimate, which are predictable, are fine. You simply don't judge until you get a heal, and lose a small amount of DPS. Random raid damage which coupled with recoil would be lethal isn't fine, and forces you to either risk death or drastically lower DPS, neither of which is attractive.
The seal's fine as it is now, with the recoil being shifted from judgement to the seal, and sacred shield becoming a very useful ability for helping to mitigate it. There are plenty of other ways to challenge DPS and make them consider damage versus survival, without tying it to specific class abilities.
No offence here but if you ever died on Thaddius cause of recoil from JoB, your healers are just plain terrible. In 5 months I haven't died once on Thaddius or even came close to dying for that matter, neither has my colleague retridin. So I always found these "you shouldn't use SoB on Thaddius story's" quite ridiculous. After all judgements over 30k were quite rare... afaik that would still result in only 10k recoil and I dunno about other people but I was raiding with 25-26k HP.
I was wondering with the 2 set tier 8 bonus, how does HoW playout vs CS Sub 20%. Is the +10% damage modifier enough to bump it in front of Crusader strike?
But I think that this point isn't really a pure advantage, because controlling the proc means postponing it and lowering the uptime even more, this needs to be kept in mind, if you evaluate it. A trinket like the [Fury of the Five Flights], for example has an even more consequent uptime of much more AP. Of course the [Mirror of Truth] was just an example of where I think the [Wrathstone] is in terms of dps gains. I didn't really mean, that the Mirror is the best choice, because from my point of view it's definitely not the best choice, and exactly that is the point, I was wondering, everyone wants to wear the Wrathstone in his Ulduar compilation.
The proc on [Mirror of Truth] isn't nearly as reliable as you made it sound like... Sure it's 10% chance, but from critical strikes, not hits. So Wrathstone at least is by far the better alternative, if you just remember to use it .
On first glance, the Warhelm of the Champion with its 69hit rating does seem to be a good choice, but if you think about it a little more, perhaps not. When you are struggling not to go over the hit cap and waste all those itemization points on hit, here's an example:
If you wear the T8 helm instead of [Warhelm of the Champion], and use [Plated Leggings of Ruination] instead of T8, according to my weightings that looses you 164dps and 15dps respectively, but it also frees up 127hit rating. Say for example you are wearing the hit helm and to stay under the hit cap you are having to wear the KT neck and cloak (neither have hit on). Now if you swap out the hit helm for T8, then that also means you can now wear the BiS neck and cloak from Ulduar, which are dps upgrades of 86dps and 119dps respectively, while still having ~47spare hit to play with.
NB. The weights I used are derived from Redcape's sheet using a Ulduar BiS setup.
Like I said: Unless hit capped, Warhelm + 4x T8.25 is the best choice. If hit capped, it's not. Depends on the overall gear setup, and we haven't even seen all Ulduar items yet (at least Algalon + Yogg hard mode remains). There's a decent chance there will be 1-3 BiS items from those encounters.
Right now, it looks like I'll go Warhelm + 4x T8.25 and Voldrethar instead of Earthshaper (due to +hit).
I am using the spreadsheet by Bellator, and the latest version calculates the priority rotation, which causes the highest dps. When I use the spreadsheet to find the best priority rotation, it says:
The spreadsheet is 100% accurate... for a 0 latency mechanognome. Assuming there is a human(oid?) at the keyboard, the generally accepted priority will be superior in most real-world situations and won't lead to actual OOM risk like something which prioritizes Judgement last.
Regarding GC's guesstimates on new Ret, sounds like a no cooldown ability is pretty high chance. If this ability costs mana it's going to really alter mana consumption - here's hoping it's a 0 mana cost and they jack up the cost on the synergy ability/abilities. It sounds like it could be very fun and set superior players ahead of facerollers. Combo point equivalents would play havoc with the spreadsheets and require severe rewrites, while hopefully Endo would have an easier time cannibalizing some of the rogue module.
I just hope we don't get the "press CS to keep DS spinning." Press once, then spam isn't very interactive. And inserting a quarter for the sit'n'spin ride to continue just sounds silly. If we get even one ability off CD we have a filler spell. Use the good stuff when available, spam extra. Just like all the casters.
At a guess, limp through 3.1 unchanged and suffer in PvP (no Exo). 3.2 will be a massive paladin change, just like 3.1 was for DK. I guess we're back to the days of late vanilla and one or two massive class rewrites a patch.
Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."
I just hope we don't get the "press CS to keep DS spinning." Press once, then spam isn't very interactive. And inserting a quarter for the sit'n'spin ride to continue just sounds silly. If we get even one ability off CD we have a filler spell. Use the good stuff when available, spam extra. Just like all the casters.
Indeed Exemplar, that 4th option doesn't sound too great. It would probably mean CS spam through entire boss fights (start with DS obviously), using Judgement only to replenish mana (and never using Ex at all?). However, it's great to know that Blizzard is indeed trying to improve the way we do damage.
I suspect we will end up with something similar to the DK disease system - various debuffs (Holy) that are placed on the buff, leading to an increase in damage when ability X is used (CS most likely, similar to Scourge Strike, Obliterate, etc). Certainly not a bad system, and much easier to maintain than FCFS. Of course, I hope they manage to give it a "flavor of its own", so we don't end up being exactly like DKs.
Agreed Marylander. I'm still a huge fan of a conflag-like mechanic for exorcism, rather than a traditional ranged burst. For example, have CS or DS on a low/no cooldown like GC suggested they might do (most likely CS, since DS has the potential to give us insane multi target damage, where as CS has nothing really special at the moment), and have those two stack up some kind of debuff, say a max of 3-5 stacks. Then, unleash exorcism for some burst, and drop the charges. The key would be to maximize DOT damage AND exorcism. If you keep it dispellable and on a short duration, you keep most of the PvP QQ at bay. This mechanic could be implemented with the RV talent, since it's nigh useless at the moment.
Another idea is to make exorcism require a charge-type effect, like overpower for arms. You would have to do something (say a moderate chance on CS or high chance on CS crit) to proc it, and it isn't available by default. This would, of course, still not fix the PvP problem.
My biggest worry with GC's post is that they'll change an ability to no or low cooldown, put in DPS changes, and ignore mana issues. I don't want to have to restort to putting on JOW on my targets or going OOM; the healing from JOL is too good to pass.
Formally Xyrm/Zurm, the Ret Pally. Now playing my rogue, Zyrm, more casually with RL friends.
Agreed Marylander. I'm still a huge fan of a conflag-like mechanic for exorcism, rather than a traditional ranged burst. For example, have CS or DS on a low/no cooldown like GC suggested they might do (most likely CS, since DS has the potential to give us insane multi target damage, where as CS has nothing really special at the moment), and have those two stack up some kind of debuff, say a max of 3-5 stacks. Then, unleash exorcism for some burst, and drop the charges. The key would be to maximize DOT damage AND exorcism. If you keep it dispellable and on a short duration, you keep most of the PvP QQ at bay. This mechanic could be implemented with the RV talent, since it's nigh useless at the moment.
Another idea is to make exorcism require a charge-type effect, like overpower for arms. You would have to do something (say a moderate chance on CS or high chance on CS crit) to proc it, and it isn't available by default. This would, of course, still not fix the PvP problem.
My biggest worry with GC's post is that they'll change an ability to no or low cooldown, put in DPS changes, and ignore mana issues. I don't want to have to restort to putting on JOW on my targets or going OOM; the healing from JOL is too good to pass.
If they choose to go in a new combat direction that leaves Judgement out of the "rotation" they always have the ability to tie the JotW mana regen to CS/DS with a bit of talent renaming. I'd rather they come up with something a little more creative than either Proc watching(Eclipse/bloodsurge kinda thing) and keeping DS 'spinning' with CS.
Retribution has been hit by a lot of knee-jerk changes over the past few years, mainly stemming from PvP problems. Hopefully if they do create a more complicated system than our current 'hit the button as soon as it lights up' scenario we might see the spec being a lot more stable in terms of balance and constant tweaks.
My biggest worry with GC's post is that they'll change an ability to no or low cooldown, put in DPS changes, and ignore mana issues. I don't want to have to restort to putting on JOW on my targets or going OOM; the healing from JOL is too good to pass.
This might become a serious issue, especially if they decide to pull a "whoops, almost forgot, here you go!" implementation at the end of the test cycle (we've seen quite a few such changes). Hopefully, 3.2 (I assume this won't be out before 3.2) will have a nice, long testing period, where we can all thoroughly test the new mechanics and provide feedback on the changes.
Anyhow, I'm getting ahead of myself here, and there's no real need to worry about this just yet. For now, I'll keep staring at my CDs, and then we'll see what the future brings.
Edit:
Originally Posted by Valsh
Retribution has been hit by a lot of knee-jerk changes over the past few years, mainly stemming from PvP problems. Hopefully if they do create a more complicated system than our current 'hit the button as soon as it lights up' scenario we might see the spec being a lot more stable in terms of balance and constant tweaks.
Well, the problem is, as we all know, that a Retribution Paladin not only has a lot of instant damage (burst), but also a lot of utility, combined with a resource system we don't have to "charge up" in any way. The solution doesn't have to be more complicated, but it probably has to rely on either DoT or build-up mechanics (stacking debuffs, rolling DoTs etc). That is why so many here (and elsewhere) have suggested either Holy debuffs or some sort of DoT effect (Avitus has mentioned quite a few times that a single-target-concecration would work).
To me, it looks like Blizzard will go through with such a change - base more of the damage around either build-up mechanics or DoTs, which should allow us to keep our utility in PvP and competitive damage in PvE, without getting nerfed to the ground (baby!) whenever something is slightly off.
I've been having massive problems in uld with my latency (teaching overseas) which only popped up with 3.1, meaning my dps is the lowest of all dps in our raids. If we could get some WWS going soon I'd love to start comparing numbers and finding the little tricks to up overall dps on specific fights.
Discord > the CS libram. However, the Deadly libram (you can get for 1300ish rating and some points) is better than both.
The 1300ish at the moment is easy to obtain, so anyone going for it should get on that now. For reference, the furious one is only 24 ap more (1950 rating).
The BB, where being accepted matters
Originally Posted by Kazanir
This thread is hurting my self-esteem because I've never been hit on (to my knowledge) by a gay man. :/
Something I think we all would like to see is the removing of Consecration from the dps cycle. The only way to do that would have a filler spell (Crusader Strike in the example) that simply does more dps than Consecration. Let us save Consecration for true AoE situationes like the original intent was in the beta.
Well, the problem is, as we all know, that a Retribution Paladin not only has a lot of instant damage (burst), but also a lot of utility, combined with a resource system we don't have to "charge up" in any way. The solution doesn't have to be more complicated, but it probably has to rely on either DoT or build-up mechanics (stacking debuffs, rolling DoTs etc). That is why so many here (and elsewhere) have suggested either Holy debuffs or some sort of DoT effect (Avitus has mentioned quite a few times that a single-target-concecration would work).
Since you brought this up...
I decided to check out Arenas last night. And after a few hours of messing around, I would almost argue your points are moot.
With the 3.1.1 changes, we no longer have enough burst. We gained a tremendous amount of survivability via DG/SS, but without the extra burst the old Judgement provided (or Exorcism) we cannot effectively burst down a team with a competent healer. Damage was very consistent (great for PvE!) but caused very little pressure on opposing teams' healers. The only way I felt capable of "bursting" on anything was to use AW. (which we know could mean a death sentence or risks being spell-stolen.) Ret is currently very dependent on outlasting other teams.
There's also a glaring issue with our mana regen via JotW, versus any teams with a Power Word: Shield effect. Because of Judgement's lowered damage, it no longer consumes a Priest's shield or a Holy Pally's Sacred Shield when cast: thus Judging against them causes no damage. Couple this with mana burn teams, or any team with the ability to purge Divine Plea and we go OOM very quickly.
Now, I am certainly not saying the sky has fallen: but compared to last season, our ability to compete seems greatly diminished. Bursting nearly requires the assistance of your teammate. Our survivability is good, with the DG/SS changes, but other than that there's really been no alteration to our utility. I would advocate should JotW remain our primary mana-recovery ability, it should be altered to be based off the firing of Judgement: not whether or not it deals damage X > 0. Or simply allow the mechanic to proc off Absorbs.
Right now, Ret feels very much like a support role in the Arenas.
Ghostcrawler: If there is a spec we want to avoid over-buffing so that we don't have to nerf them, it's Ret.
04/22/09, 8:55 PM
.
Similar Threads
