Some more log files for you all concerning Divine Sacrifice.

Here is the WWS from our attempts last night on Deconstructor. I used Divine Sacrifice along with bubble on most of the attempts (there are a couple I didn't). The duration lasted the full 10 seconds for all of the attempts EXCEPT on the very first attempt I used it twice and the second use appears to only last less than 5 seconds. I tried digging through the log files to see what exactly was going on but I'm not very good at parsing through these so maybe someone else can go through and figure out what happened.

Maybe there is some kind of diminishing returns if using it more than once on a fight?

WWS Log (filtered to "divine sacrifice" on the first attempt)

Endo:

Your first paragraph is correct, all pvp dps has to give up something to exercise utility. Overall, I don't think it's fair to try to compare classes to eachother because it's apples to oranges. Too many difference to make a fair comparison.

However, I'd disagree that Ret doesn't give up dps for it's utility. The obvious one is when we are forced to go Defensive we lose 50% of dps when bubbled. The one we do all the time is Global CD, which isn't a big deal for when you have big utility spells... but ours are small utility spells. Lots of cleanses add up. A mage or lock or rogue could put 2-3 debuffs on a target w/n just a few seconds (not to mention the debuffs stacking) and we lose a lot of our dps by cleansing the debuffs. Resists just add to our dps loss. I've had several instances where I've just auto-attacked and cleansed for a solid 4-6 GCD's in a row. That's a lot of dps lost.

I think the major crux of the problem is that Ret doesn't have any OFFENSIVE utility. Yes, we can stay alive pretty well and have CD's to help with that... but once we're alive... we can't do much to take the enemies out w/o the burst and extra goodies.

This is horribly wrong. Judgement of justice, hammer of justice, and repentance. And bubble is personal utility, that actually increases your DPS if used properly, via the popular saying "dead DPS do no damage". And mages/locks can be interrupted and silenced and TOTALLY shut down as a result, where as we can't be interrupted and silence only affects some of our abilities.

Well, if you didn't NEED to dispell those, then yes, it was a DPS loss. If you NEEDED to, you either saved your life directly or saved someone else's life in the raid indirectly by freeing up healer GCDs. That's just good playstyle, and part of the baggage that comes with being a hybrid.

This was the only part of your post I agreed with:

Maybe this has been answered before, but i couldnt find it.

Is there at the moment a reliable spreadsheet?
Atm i use Rawr, but i was never fan of Rawr, cause it often seemed to me it wasnt that accurate.

Rarw is quite accurate with Bellator's amd Redcapes (the other two spreadsheets)

Not to further stray from the PvE discussion, but I think what was meant by OFFENSIVE utility, is that we have extremely limited ways in dealing with defensive countermeasures, namely healing. The way we handled this in 3.0.9 was burst. Now, we are left feeling like we have to rely more heavily on teammates to kill something than others do.

I do not think it is as bad as meaning are putting forth, but I still think we could use a short CD interrupt and we would be fine.


As far as changing the dynamics of the Ret combat "cycle", I think this would be a huge step in the right direction. Of course, this is generally is going to mean proc-watching or some sort of build-up-and-dump system, but that's fine. It would really separate out the skill levels among the players. I think we can definitely expect some more spice added to Crusader Strike.

That must be the reason, why it rates "Valerous Aegis Legplates" higher then "Conqueror's Aegis Legplates". (T8 vs. T8,5)
Exactly the same stats, just that T8,5 got more of them. But still gets rated lower.

If you actually read the first post of the Rawr.Ret thread you would know this is a very easily fixed bug.

This is not a forum to take shots at RAWR. It's a good tool. Use it or not at your discretion. This is not the first time lately this sort of thing has come up, and it has no place here.

There are some very, very constructive ways to handle this (for one, maybe reporting it on the RAWR bug).

There are three really good tools. They're converging in what they tell us. That is what matters.

Borsch: There are, very literally, two different spread sheets linked in the FAQ. It might be a good idea to at least appear to be active in the community before you come in and attack the accuracy of any of its tools.

Q: Is there a tool to calculate my DPS using a certain gear/spec setup? Or what item will be better for me?
A: Yes, Rawr, Redcape's Calculator, and Bellator's spreadsheet (updated by Exemplar) which much like this thread will improve in accuracy with time. Note that gear upgrades from all 3 tools are mostly dependent on your current gear.

According to the first post by Arikah (and lots of other forums), the priority rotation is:

CS > HoW > Judgement > DS > Consecration > Exorcism > Holy Wrath

I am using the spreadsheet by Bellator, and the latest version calculates the priority rotation, which causes the highest dps. When I use the spreadsheet to find the best priority rotation, it says:

Concecration > Exorcism > CS > DS > Judge

Does anyone want to comment on this, plz?

Use CS > HoW > Judgement > DS > Consecration > Exorcism > Holy Wrath and ignore the rotations shown in Bellator's spreadsheet. However, the rest of the information in that sheet is solid.