Not attempting to de-rail, but just to note for those that might not be aware:

This also includes Demolishers and other such vehicles in the appropriate battleground and locations where they might be faced.

I believe this advice comes both from having gear affect Judgement of Light's effect as well as talents which add effects to the Judgements being cast by the Paladin with the talent. For example, with two Retribution Paladins, you would want the one with the higher AP casting Judgement of Light, while the other casts Judgement of Wisdom to avoid having the stronger JoL being overwritten. If you have a Protection Paladin on a mob you're attacking, he/she should judge JoW or JoJ while you judge JoL. However, using the same Judgement shouldn't account for a loss in DPS. Is it possible that you're missing certain buffs in your 25 man raid that you have in your 10 man raid?

Correct me if I am wrong, but from what I recall the damage from Retribution Aura is credited to the person being hit and not the Paladin with the aura active. Also, the bonuses from the improved aura talents apply regardless of the aura you use now, so spread your aura use out accordingly.

There's 3 simple rules to follow:
- noone ever judges the same as your prot paladin
- make sure the person with the highest JoL heal (don't forget divinity) judges light and keeps it up
- holy pala's need to judge either light or wisdom to benefit from the 40yd range

Anyway, the judgement rules are not related to damage done and have no effect on it. If you want to know more about who should judge what, I recommend you read the latest pages of the 'simple questions' topic, it comes up often there.
But again, this has no impact on DPS.

As for your other question, ret aura damage is given to the person being hit by the mob, not to the person supplying the aura.

For your much higher dps in 10 man ulduar than 25m naxx, I can't explain that. Possibly you have much less FPS in big raids? (fps has a very big influence on dps from what I've noticed)

WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish
Hard-mode Hodir with 3 Retribution Paladins. I'm not trying to say it was the optimal comp, but you make it sound like it's completely impossible, which it's not.

With multiple Rets, at the minimum you gain extra raid-wide 40% damage absorbs and 100% uptime on JoL and JoW, which are very useful.

Well this sucks.

Source link

From the 3.1.2 patch notes under Bug Fixes
So it sounds like Divine Sac is designed to function until you actively take the required % of your health for it to expire, or the timer ends. Taking no damage during the bubble means DivSac should absorb 30/40% of eligible (in range) raid damage.

The reason for previous data not matching (early break) was when the paladin popping Sac took direct (not redirected) damage then Sac immediately ended, or if you only took 20% max health on one DivSac, next would only do 130% max (not resetting to 150%). This latter was probably why some Bubble+Sac logs were below expected - a previous partial absorb left the new absorb less than maximum.

With this fixed (assuming it is) then Bubble should provide full Divine Sacrifice absorption (30/40% raid damage) for 10 seconds every single time.

To the JoL discussion above:

Not sure if this has been discussed here before, but for certain fights (mimiron hard mode p2) you'll want to have multiple paladins judging light.

There's a bug, atleast I believe it's a bug, wherein after you judge light any attack within 1 second? (not sure on the exact timing) guarantee procs it, and you can have multiple attacks in that second that will proc it (i've had 4 procs in the initial second before, including ret aura proccing it). Thus, if you have multiple people casting JoL you'll have a huge amount of forced procs, and in a hugely heavy raid damage environment, much higher overall healing from it, though in most cases it's superior for the Ret with the highest AP to be judging light, there *are* circumstances where spam judging light is better.

Thanks for the help guys! One last question though: Will a retadin lose dps by judging wis instead of light if you have one Retadin already judging light? This was a concern from another Retadin that I was asking to judge wis b/c i was on light because I have higher DPS which would of course = more healing.

Judgement of Justice/Light/Wisdom simply unleash your current Seal and apply the relevant debuff on the target. The damage the Judgement does is entirely dependent upon the Seal you're using.

That really does suck as it is going to prove to be yet another nerf for Ret Palys who are JCs. We will lose a minimum of +16 strength as at least 1 strength gem will have to be replaced with an enchanted tear to meet the requirements to activate the meta gem. It might also make the Relentless Earthsiege Diamond better for everyone instead of a Chaotic Skyflare Diamond for JCs because with the Relentless Earthsiege Diamond we only lose 1 strength gem to an enchanted tear while the Chaotic Skyflare Diamond will require 2 gem slots to be changed from strength to some other blue gem.

Re: Divine Sacrifice

It's still all sorts of screwy on Mimiron. This isn't the cleanest example as there was some miscommunication and me and the holy pala overlapped our DiSacs in p2, but it should illustrate that it's still behaving oddly.

[21:53:38.828] Kareha casts Divine Sacrifice
[21:53:39.046] Echò gains Divine Sacrifice from Kareha
[21:53:39.968] Rhiannon casts Divine Sacrifice
[21:53:43.375] Echò's Divine Sacrifice fades <- Kareha's DiSac falling off, 4.5 seconds after it was cast
[21:53:43.375] Echò gains Divine Sacrifice from Rhiannon
[21:53:44.203] Echò's Divine Sacrifice fades <- My DiSac falling off, ~4.2 seconds after I cast it

Log here: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

JoL does stack, as i noticed on our last raid!
Here are some examples from our Wow Web Stats :


We also noticed multiple proccs from JoW in our raid, but as we tested this at the IF training dummy with 2 holy palas, JoW didn't stack.
Are you sure about your theory with JotJ? Definitely no one of both had skilled this talent.

Correct me if i somehow misread/understood it but, right now jc gains 33str and any socket bonuses/meta requirements vs. say a bs 32 str from the two extra sockets. When epic gems are released would not that benefit go down to 21 str (27 vs 20) and no socket bonuses or free meta requirements while bs would go up to 40 str bonus. Seems to me that the socket bonuses and meta requirements would help it scale and stay competitive against other profs, namely bs. Though it does seem to show just how powerful blacksmithing is as a profession this expansion.

As usual, there is absolutely nothing stopping them from putting in a second tier of Dragon's Eyes when epic gems hit, which is some time in the future. BS might get toned down so that we can only put blue gems in prismatic sockets or whatever. Again, this is in the future and it doesn't matter at the moment.

As I BS I get 2 additional [Bold Scarlet Ruby] for an extra 32 Strength. I also have to use an [Enchanted Tear] to reach my meta requirements (we'll say I threw it in my T8 pants and am picking up a +6 Strength socket bonus with it, so +10 strength). In total I'm looking at 42 Strength with my profession to reach my meta.

A JC gets 3 [Bold Dragon's Eye] for 33 Strength over blue gems. Again assuming those 6 Strength socket bonuses you're gaining an additional 18 Strength and have already reached your meta requirements. Thus you have a total of 51 Strength. You just gained 9 Strength over the next strongest profession.

In short, JC was letting you pick up good socket bonuses without "wasted" stats (like Stamina) as well as completely bypassing meta requirements without more "wasted stats" (like Stamina) plus an equal raw additional stat bonus as every other profession. It was too good and it got nerfed. You now get to gem like everyone else, you simply get the additional stats - again like everyone else.

Need to read better. Sorry.

JoL is very nice and yes, ret pallies will be topping the healing charts quite a bit. The issue is that JoL will normally have about 15-20% effective healing. Overhealing is something JoL cannot avoid and should be brought up when speaking on the over poweredness of the spell.

I believe it has its benefits and can never hurt, however it may not be as good as you think.

Overheal doesn't matter at all, since JoL healing comes at no cost.

The one big thing to consider when watching at JoL in the healing meters is that it's a "stupid heal". It will not save that mage with napalm shell, etc. Most of the healing JoL does is probably healing your raid healers would have done anyway ("topping off people").

But this has been said a dozen times already in this topic, can we just let it rest? JoL is a nice cushion for melee classes taking damage, it's great for topping off the raid but it rarely -if ever- saves people from dying.

Sure it's over the top when comparing to Blue gems. That's like comparing level 80 enchants to level 70 enchants (slight hyperbole).

When you compare, more accurately, JC gems to the epic gems, it falls distinctly behind other professions.

Epic gems are not in-game. When they are put in game, rest assured, Blizzard will address it. Until then its an argument that holds no water whatsoever.

I noticed this from Ensidia's Mimiron video but unless there's a specific trick or talent needed, I'm pretty certain that this was hotfixed between your WWS log and today, most likely because of how powerful two 900+ JOL procs are on some Ulduar bosses. We spent a while today trying to stack two JOL's on the Training Dummy and on Mimiron but the debuff was always overwritten instead of showing up twice.

Edit: I was seriously wondering why Ensidia's Phase 2 raid damage was so low compared to every single one of our attempts when they used 1 less healer...

I have one question to the creator of this forum, Why choose SoB over SoC? I am asking because SoC, since it is a DoT that you can cause decent instant dmg with aswell, seems like a really good choice for DPS.