3.1 Retribution Paladin Thread - Page 92

• Chicken · 06/20/09, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Endoscient

I have SoV dot always doing damage every 3 seconds regardless of miss chance.

I actually don't think SoV's debuff application can miss, it works like Seal of Righteousness in that regard: If the attack that procs it hits, it'll hit too. Obviously that might change, though I don't think they'll change that part. The extra damage proc is likely to get the same mechanics as Seal of Blood currently does, which is what you're already modelling after.

Some extra modelling might be interesting though, it might be within your best interest to start your rotation prioritizing the attacks that can proc SoV, since the extra weapon damage aspect only applies after you get a full stack going, and the Judgement gets stronger for each application of SoV on the target as well. This can result in your initial rotation differing from the rotation you'll use after all 5 stacks are up. An example at random, which I obviously haven't tested, might be that you're better off prioritizing Divine Storm over any abilities after Crusader Strike to begin with, while it settles back to it's normal position in the priority chain afterwards.

It might also be worth modelling for fights in which you have to switch targets for some reason or another, since there's plenty of fights where this is the case. Of course even then there's a difference between the targets being in Divine Storm range of each other or not, though that part is probably not worth modelling.

Redcape · 06/20/09, 3:52 PM

After whacking the target dummy with alternately capped hit and zero hit I can confirm things about SoVs behaviour:

1. The dot application can miss. It does so roughly as often as one would expect from spell resist.

2. The dot application is called Holy Vengeance, which is the same name as the damage from the dot. This might confuse damage logs, but is clear if you just look at the log yourself as you test.

3. The dot damage tick can NEVER be fully resisted. It can be partially resisted and my not truly rigorous testing suggests a resist % somewhere in the 6-10 range on a 83 mob and 0% on a 80 mob. This fits with the accepted model of 2% partial resist for each mob level above yours.

4. None of SoV is susceptible to parry/dodge at all.

These all fit with the model I had been using which applies the 6% partial resist to SoV and does not apply miss, dodge or parry at all. This does mean that stacking SoV will depend on spell hit, which raises the value of hit beyond the physical cap somewhat. It is a very small amount regardless, so I will ignore it.

This means that although expertise cap is useful to achieve for SoV in that it will increase the number of "SoB" type procs and will result in faster initial stacking it is worse than current because once it is rolling the dot will be completely unaffected and the overall portion of our damage that is susceptible to parry/dodge goes down.

One very interesting note: If you DS two targets with SoV on and both have a 5 stack, both of the SoV direct damage procs hit your primary target. This would mean that if you have random dudes standing near the boss you can actually ramp up your single target dps simply by letting DS build up a full stack and getting 4x procs on each DS. Not like this will come up a lot, but it could be a lot of fun on a few fights.

Ranjurm · 06/21/09, 2:02 AM

Originally Posted by Dragonlover

Judgement has pure and simple ranged mechanics (like hunter's autoshot).

It's actually a rather long range melee attack with dodge/parry suppressed.

chinoquezada · 06/21/09, 2:58 AM

Originally Posted by Redcape

One very interesting note: If you DS two targets with SoV on and both have a 5 stack, both of the SoV direct damage procs hit your primary target. This would mean that if you have random dudes standing near the boss you can actually ramp up your single target dps simply by letting DS build up a full stack and getting 4x procs on each DS. Not like this will come up a lot, but it could be a lot of fun on a few fights.

Kologarn, Freya, Thorim Arena and Razorscale adds come to mind.

Soher · 06/21/09, 3:52 AM

Originally Posted by chinoquezada

Kologarn, Freya, Thorim Arena and Razorscale adds come to mind.

I doubt those adds live long enough to get enough stacks. Maybe Freya's.

blindpiggy · 06/21/09, 4:25 AM

first post here.../wave

Was looking at the macros section and esp with the changes coming up in 3.2, people should be using SS every chance they get. I am a big fan of consolidation of skills into one button, so I use these:

#showtooltip
/cast [target=mouseover, nodead, help] [help, nodead] Sacred Shield; [target=mouseover, exists, dead, help] [exists, dead, help] Redemption; [exists, nodead, nohelp] [] Judgement of Light;

What this does is on friendly mouseover/friendly targets will cast SS on them. If your friendly mouseover/target is dead it will attemp to rez them. If your target can't have helpful spells cast on them it will attempt to Judge them. You can probably tweak it to make it target you by default if nothing else, but I prefer it this way so I can target a boss and SS the tank or myself at the same time.

You can of course sub out things that you don't need or would like to add like a nocombat to the rez would be a good place to start, but I think it has enough conditions as is. I think if you use [target=mouseover, dead, help] you may actually get better results for rezing in case of people releasing, though I haven't tried it.

#showtooltip
/cast [target=mouseover, help, nodead][help] Holy Shock
/stopcasting

Though this would go into the holy pally thread this will allow you to use a mouse macro in pve and avoid burning a holy shock on accident on the boss.

#showtooltip
/cast [target=mouseover, exists, help][help] Flash of Light

I throw this in my clique shift b1 for FoLs. If you want to only use it on AoW procs you could add a /stopcasting afterwards, but it could be annoying if you are like me and spam stuff way too much. :/

#showtooltip
/cast [target=mouseover, exists][help][target=player] Lay on Hands

Priority current mouseover target, then your current target, then you.

#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=12 divine shield, divine sacrifice

Again another combo macro I use just to save space on bars in pve.

Hope these are helpful, the judgement ones of course can be changed to your needs (i have two, one for light, one for wis).

Ranjurm · 06/21/09, 4:30 AM

Mimiron P4 also comes to mind.

Nisall · 06/21/09, 9:56 AM

Originally Posted by Soher

I doubt those adds live long enough to get enough stacks. Maybe Freya's.

Kologarn's adds die fast, but he has up to 3 body parts.

Wyan · 06/21/09, 12:48 PM

"Now, once a paladin has 5 copies of the debuff from these seals on his or her target, on each swing the paladin will deal 33% weapon damage as Holy"
I wonder if this works when the 5stacks come from another paladin. I suppose it won't but it could be nice especially when having a prot pal in your raid.

Musclebound · 06/21/09, 7:22 PM

Originally Posted by Redcape

After whacking the target dummy with alternately capped hit and zero hit I can confirm things about SoVs behaviour:

1. The dot application can miss. It does so roughly as often as one would expect from spell resist.

2. The dot application is called Holy Vengeance, which is the same name as the damage from the dot. This might confuse damage logs, but is clear if you just look at the log yourself as you test.

Just for clarity, will this mean hit's value rises? Will gearing for spell hit cap be important? Or am I misunderstanding your results?

Khaelarys · 06/21/09, 8:51 PM

Originally Posted by Musclebound

Just for clarity, will this mean hit's value rises? Will gearing for spell hit cap be important? Or am I misunderstanding your results?

From the same post, from Red...

"These all fit with the model I had been using which applies the 6% partial resist to SoV and does not apply miss, dodge or parry at all. This does mean that stacking SoV will depend on spell hit, which raises the value of hit beyond the physical cap somewhat. It is a very small amount regardless, so I will ignore it."

Palette · 06/22/09, 8:53 AM

I have a simple question:

on each swing the paladin will deal 33% weapon damage as Holy

does this means it only procs on white or also proc on our specials??
I don't understand this part.
Has anyone a idea how this works?

• Zurm · 06/22/09, 9:29 AM

Originally Posted by Palette

does this means it only procs on white or also proc on our specials??
I don't understand this part.
Has anyone a idea how this works?

It works exactly like all seals work now. Seals will proc on white and melee strikes, so for a ret paladin it will proc on white, CS, and DS. It will NOT proc on judgement, exorcism, or consecrate.

Lorce11 · 06/22/09, 9:31 AM

With all the respect to Redcape and the people testing this, isn't it still too early to talk about needing or not needing spellhit for SoV? Especially since it's been said it will be doing double damage on crits, which could imply they're moving it into melee mechanic like SoB has now...

• Zurm · 06/22/09, 9:39 AM

Originally Posted by Lorce11

With all the respect to Redcape and the people testing this, isn't it still too early to talk about needing or not needing spellhit for SoV? Especially since it's been said it will be doing double damage on crits, which could imply they're moving it into melee mechanic like SoB has now...

You do not need to reach the spell hit cap for SoV. Spell hit only applies to the initial application of a DOT effect, which for us is a melee strike. Once you have the debuff applied, there's really nothing that can help you for holy damage. There is NO CHANGE to how it currently works, other than at a 5 stack we get extra damage in the form of a mini-sob proc.