So far AM is looking to be a quite nice reactive spell to migitate raid dmg, its just hard to really track what its actually doing. So far though i believe it proved it's worth, seeing 8 people not getting flame jets and the looking at how much u can resist Frozen Blows i'd say its a point well spend, and if anything, something fun to use.


Napalm shell can indeed be resisted partially btw. WWS

Illumination returns mana from base cost, thus the interaction would be the same as with holy light libram, a net gain.

Kallista from PlusHeal.com did some nice compaired math on it, link.

Link is broken...

And yeh I was wondering the same thing...

I've passed on this the the priests in our 10man, but would really like to know how it stacks up, as I'll have one once we get it to drop again.

I got Spark of Hope on the first week due to the absence of anyone wanting it, I have to say I'm very happy with it and will easily consider it BiS for regen. The arguable downside of Spark of Hope is that it offers regen only.

According to my math, these are very unbiased MP5 values of favorable Paladin regen trinkets:

[Spark of Hope]: 133-140mp5
[Soul of the Dead]: 105mp5
[Darkmoon Card: Greatness]: 78mp5
[Pandora's Plea]: 71mp5
[Figurine - Sapphire Owl]: 68mp5
Show of Faith: 48mp5
[Spark of Life]: 44mp5
[Living Ice Crystals]: 43mp5
[Energy Siphon]: 43mp5
[Vanquished Clutches of Yogg-Saron]: 41mp5
[Sif's Remembrance]: 39mp5
[Winged Talisman]: 29mp5
[Eye of the Broodmother]: 26mp5
[Je'Tze's Bell]: 25mp5
[Darkmoon Card: Illusion]: 24mp5

Do note that these converted MP5 values do not include the HPS benefits of haste, spellpower or crit. Henceforth, Pandora's Plea is much better than Sapphire Owl despite sharing almost the same MP5's worth.

I also thought it would be relevant to mention that Spark of Hope scales better for players with green latency.

Good luck getting it.

This is based of my WWS numbers from our Ulduar 25 last night. It was all bosses through Hodir/Thorim (no freya/mimiron), so the 8 bosses are a pretty good representation. Total fight time for all of them is 64 minutes.

Soul of the Dead proc return = 63,900
Total mana returned from Illumination = 505,467
Soul of the Dead crit = ~2%
Mana from 2% crit = ~18,400 (based on average crit of 55%)
Mana lost by removing this trinket = ~82,300 (or 107 mp5)

Total casts (offensive + healing) = 172 + 1,364 = 1,536
Total mana saved with Spark of Hope @ 42 mana per cast = 64,512 (or 84 mp5)

So in regards to mana saved, Spark of Hope is fairly inferior. Then factor in the healing burst and throughput you lose by removing 2% crit and Soul of the Dead should easily win out. It should be fairly easy for anyone to look at one of their own WWS or WMO logs and see which is best for them.

As for Pandora's Plea, it's a lot harder to do the math over multiple fights, since you can't model the larger mana pool as well. But here's a few things based on the same night that I can come up with. All of the numbers are based from ACTUAL ticks of mana tide, replenishment, etc. So for replenishment, it would be 0.25% of 2055 mana times the number of ticks i got throughout all the fights.

108 Int = 137 after talents/kings
108 Int = 0.82% crit after talents/kings
108 Int = 2055 mana after talents/kings
Extra mana from Replenishment = 16,825
Extra mana from Divine Plea = 10,788
Extra mana from Mana Tide = 3,205
Extra mana from SoW swings = 4,521
Extra mana from crit (Illumination) = 7,600

So, that's already up to about 43,000 mana. Then factor in 2,000 more mana at the start of each fight, for 10 fights (wiped on thorim and hodir once each) and it's up to about 65,000 mana, or 85 mp5. As for healing output, comparing to Soul of the Dead you lose 1.2% crit and gain 27 spell power and the 850 SP proc (150-170 average spell power).

I know the general consensus here seems to be that Int > all but has anyone experimented with using abnormal ammounts of crit instead(gemming and enchanting exclusively for it in disregard for anything else) and using haste/crit(in detriment to haste/mp5 or crit/mp5) pieces for exclusive spam of HL on targets that require alot of heals very fast and over moderate to long periods of times?(most of Ulduar bosses come to mind)

you are correct in the timing, my "all bosses" HPS time is 64 minutes 38 seconds. But you also have to realize that it is real-world situations and not theory crafting.

On razorscale adds, healing is lite and I don't need to be chain casting. When he lands, I'm not healing at all and doing pure DPS on the boss (hence the mana return from seal of wisdom melee)
On XT, when his heart is exposed i'm going pure dps again.
On council, I'm stopping whatever i'm doing during Fusion punch and spamming my dispell on Steelbreaker's tank. there's also running out of runes and running away from lightning tendrils dude.
On Kologarn, I'm got eye beamed twice so I'm running around, plus it includes a little bit of running from someone else's eyebeam.
On Auriaya, there are fears where i'm running around, and then spending a few seconds dispelling once my tremor totem ticks.
Not to mention on many fights I sometimes am re-applying beacon or SS when it's safe to do so, not necessarily waiting until it's expiring. On tank switch fights, I'm recasting beacon and SS on the new tanks sometimes.
Etc.... you should get the picture.

For those paladins lurking on the boards, its important to remember that many of the calculations on Rawr, plusheal, etc are done in some vacuum scenarios. You should be doing your own math on a per-encounter basis.

Take a typical 2:30 Patchwerk kill.

Base mana of HL is 1274.

92 HL casts in that time.

Our excellent [Libram of Renewal] subtracts 113 from each HL. 92x113 = 10396 mana saved by using this libram.

T7 4 piece subtracts 64mana from each HL. 92x64 = 5888

Seal of Wisdom subtracts 64mana from each healing spell. So again 5888 + any other heals cast.

[Spark of Hope] subtracts 42 mana from each spell. At a minimum, it is saving me 3864 mana on that encounter.

Its important to note that these numbers will be different based on which items/spells you use together. If you equip [Libram of Renewal] it will reduce your mana cost correctly. But if you apply the libram with seal of wisdom or t7 4 piece, they are no longer subtracting 64 from each spell cast, but 58.05. That is why your Holy Lights use 1044 mana, as opposed to 1033.

In regards to the T7 4 piece, if I'm ending up with over 6k mana on any given fight, with proper CD/pot use, is T7>T8? Answer is pretty clear. The above was modeled on Patchwerk where heals are spammed and there are no lulls to stop healing, or melee mobs to regen.

So looking at some more realistic parses, my HL casts last night in Ulduar are as follows:

Razorscale: 90
Ignis: 70
XT: 95
Hodir: 82
Kologarn and Auriaya were lagged up encounters with approx 74HLs cast.

These numbers as well don't include mana gained from illumination. So don't solely rely on one flawed program or model for every encounter, do your own math. Sitting at 35k buffed mana, my results, based on healer composition and assignments, will be different than anyone else's.

From my personal experience with Rawr, the program is only as good as its operator. There are settings and options to tweak your setup to your playstyle and your fight specifics. I think if you are calling this program "flawed", you haven't invested enough time in learning how to use it. I also take offense to the fact that people are coming to these forums to learn how to be better at their class, which benefits all of us, and you're discrediting one of the most widely used tools across our community. Rawr is constantly being updated to help us even more and I appreciate it. It's definitely important to understand how it works and the mathematics behind Rawr's lists, but it's an excellent resource, hands down, and I don't understand how you could ever call it "flawed" beyond any reasonable bugs or impossibilities.

I suggest that if you're getting answers from Rawr you don't understand or agree with, you post in the Rawr Healadin thread and ask Endo for an explanation. Make sure to include your character file so he can tell you which settings you haven't marked correctly.

The plusheal thread is flawed... they forgot kings. Due to difficulty modelling - things like seal of wisdom, hymn, mana tide and arcane torrent also ignored which is typical.

The cost reduction is worked into rawr already. Top 2 BiS are Plea and DCM followed by Soul of the Dead in pretty much all normal sets of gear, in any fight that lasts for over 5 minutes.

The only way you can make spark the 3rd best trinket is if you model based on 100% activity. At this point you are actually spamming FoL over half the time.
Do you usually cast so much that you are forced to spam 1:2 HL:FoL in full naxx25 gear, while doing Uld.... nope! Most wws I've seen of fights I would guess are very spam-based, indicate that few people cast spells >80% of the time.

I would use spark on vezax... obviously that is a very special case.

... Roknroll ... you'd get 20k mana from illumination based on 2% crit from SotD, 500k mana received. Remember you have only ~50% crit, therefore 2% crit represents 4% of your overall crit chance.