This line pretty much invalidates your entire post, the difference in some hard modes is night and day between their normal versions. Yes you could do all of normal Ulduar-25 easily with Naxx-25 gear, but that really isn't a problem. Go do a hard mode that is hard on healers (like 3 Tree Freya) and come back and say the same statement. When you are the only healer on the main tank (besides HoTs/Earthshield) who can die from full in 3-4 seconds and you have to actually move and do stuff besides stand there and heal, then you are going to want all the extra healing stats you can get.

To kind of give an idea about hard mode encounter damage from a spikey boss so there's a common reference point for those that might not have tried a 25 man hard mode yet; (and this is also available through public WWS of guilds that have done the encounter), here's a log excerpt from our recent hard attempts.


This was relatively early in the encounter, but had that last hit landed it would represent a 30k+ hit on the tank within one second. Even with mitigation applied, the tank receiving this blow is going to be precariously close to death immediately after the cast and reactively healing that kind of a spike opens up the risk to raid damage finishing the tank off before a heal can land. In that regard, like brutallus, straight spamming the tank with an HL heavy rotation seems to me the only way going about healing.

I really have to second this. While mana is more or less irrelevant on a majority of the normal mode encounters, hard modes are an entirely different beast. I'm almost entirely geared for longevity, and I still have to Divine Plea multiple times for Freya +1/2 - typically at the beginning of each Detonating Lasher wave (and I'm still almost dry by the time we clear up the 6th wave of add spawns - fortunately, at that point it doesn't really matter) and on Thorim with Sif up (I'm usually in the gauntlet, so I typically Plea right when we engage the first mini-boss, after we kill the second [this one is kind of a no brainer], and once more when he's still low on charges).

(I don't really feel qualified to comment on some of the other hard modes yet, as I don't have any experience with them, but I'm certain they will be just as large of a strain on my mana bar as the other ones I have attempted)

That being said, a throughput set definitely does have its uses, especially on things like Hodir hard mode, Vezax (when all that MP5 gear is worthless), or Yogg+3/4 - so my suggestion is obviously to have both types of gear(!) and swap pieces in as necessary.

As an example: I can and do switch out [Valorous Redemption Headpiece] for [Ancient Iron Heaume], [Lifeforge Breastplate] for [Chestplate of the Great Aspects], [Greaves of the Rockmender] for [Poignant Sabatons], and my trusty [Figurine - Sapphire Owl] for [The Egg of Mortal Essence] when I need additional throughput.

I have made the conclusion that Blizzard knew that Ulduar will have long fights so it concentrated the pally gear on MP5. Using Pallymar's guide PlusHeal.com • View topic - Ulduar Best-in-Slot Guide this will show you how to properly gear for Ulduar

Great responses – I thought hard modes would push the DPS more than healers, but, having only done a handful of hard modes in 10-man, I see I'm inexperienced.

The one stat I'd be most interested in is the average number of HL casts per fight on hard-mode. During the first 40 seconds of Auriaya, for instance, I cast a HL every 1.6 seconds, but that moves up to a holy light every 3.6 seconds if you look at the entire fight. The reason I choose Auriaya is because I can distinguish between the 1.6 and 3.6 HLps stages pretty cleanly.

So, does anyone know what their HLps averages are for hard-mode fights? That should be a pretty good gauge as to how intense healing gets on those fights.

Most hard modes take far longer then that, they are more like 8-10 minutes. Hodir is the only one in the 3-4 minute range.

Also to people giving 10 man hard mode experience, while hard modes on 10man are still hard they are much easier to heal then 25man hard modes. Just because you feel your gear stats is enough for 10 man hard modes, you can go to 25 man hard modes and you could wish you didn't pass on those items.

I was referring to both 10 and 25 hard modes. The healing is night and day in regards to 10normal->10hard, and 25normal->25hard. I'm not sure what your second sentence is referring to.

You cant simply say that he's gearing improperly because he only chooses plate pieces, I'm in the same boat now. I refuse to roll on any piece other than a plate piece, not because I believe plate is better, I agree that mail is sometimes if not most of the time better itemized for paladins than plate is. But firstly, because of fairness. I don't think its fair that I can roll on my shamans gear because its 'built for me too!' and then have free reign on my own gear as well, thats simply going to result in me being twinked out and my shaman undergeared, when I take a night off or go on vacation, I'd much rather have the gear spread out than all of it being worn by me and him still in naxx gear.

@ Sven; how often do you cast divine plea during these fights where you can maintain a constant holy light spam? aside from points where you aren't throwing any heals at all out anyway.

By the way, it was not written yet that absorbed hit triggers sacred shield too (this fact is not really valuable for raiding though). It isn't obvious from spell description.

The easiest way to test it - aggro a few lvl 76-76 mobs (for example guards in WG). In my Prot/Holy pvp spec and holy gear I can "tank" 5 guards without being hit at all. They can't deplete SS in 6 sec and then the new procs while old is still up. My HP never goes down when I keep sacred shield up after it procced the first time.

If your guild is using any reasonable dkp system that situation shouldn't be possible to happen, unless that shaman refuses to for some reason bid on his bis items.

Gear shouldn't be thought as plate or mail. I agree on if the piece is "just" an upgrade then I would most likely skip it but Bis is Bis is Bis. Everyone wants 16/17 bis items, armor class has no bearing. It might be best to skip for guild progression if some of your raiders are in bad gear. A lot of players using these forums however are in guilds where most of it's raid roster is geared in mostly old tier bis items and everyone are at somewhat same line.

Well, our guild uses a DKP system, but we also have a rule that mail uses get priority on mail items for main spec, cloth users get priority on cloth items, etc. However, plate wearers will get to bid on mail items for main spec before mail users can bid on them for off spec. Our officers have decided that this is the best way to handle the situation, since, although plate wearers can wear all lower armour classes, mail users, for instance, can't wear plate.

So, basically, our shaman will have first priority on mail items, but if our elemental shaman, for instance, doesn't want a piece with crit/haste/SP on it, then the holy paladins will be able to bid on it before the enhance shaman can bid on it for off-spec.