Varuk

Pure Int is highly likely to continue to reign supreme. It provides slightly less raw regen as mp5 does assuming you DP every 2 minutes (more mana if you DP on cooldown), but it still increases your maximum mana which mathematically has a lot to do with it's strength as a stat. It has definitely gone from being absolutely overwhelmingly best stat to simply being our best stat, though.

Whether or not we're going to gem for socket bonuses depends on what those socket bonuses are and what colors the sockets are. If Blizzard continues the trend of giving us U/R sockets with spellpower bonuses I fully intend to continue ignoring them and putting in straight Int. If they actually start giving use yellow sockets or give us stats other than spellpower as socket bonuses things could change up -- blue sockets will be pretty low sacrifice to get, what with mp5 being nearly as good as int just put a Dazzling gem in there for nearly the same effect. Red sockets will continue to suck though.

 

DiamondTear

I made a healing guide for Algalon.

YouTube - Paladin healing guide for Algalon

Any comments on the tactics are welcome.

 

aylen86

Nice guide. Our guild is also wiping on Algalon so any suggestions might help us.

My questions are:

Though you are raiding with 4pc t8 and not 4pc t7, you are using a crit orientated healingspec. Is it also possible to heal through this encounter with a sacred shield spec (51 - 20 - 0) or are you risking to go out of mana?
In our last attempt, I tried meeleing the mob for some SoW procs. It is in fact movement heavier because most of the cosmic smashes are landing in the melee camp. Is it a good or a bad idea and is pursuit of justice needed for that?

 

DiamondTear

I'm using 4 pc t7, not t8. I'm sure it's possible to heal with 51/20 without running out of mana (I had 10k left with haste gear), but you benefit more from the retri talents. If I didn't have enough mana to spam my heart out, I'd probably use a stopcasting button or macro instead of meleeing and sync it with the tank using cooldowns. Melee is not a good place to be.

 

PeF

Yes, meleeing alagalon is not a really good idea. Anyway you can stay near a black hole in order to enter as fast as possible when algalon begins his cast because while inside you can melee adds and often proc 1 or 2 sow (yes it's not amazing but that's still 2k+ free mana !)

And as Diamondtear already said you can do algalon with 4pt8 & a 50/20 spec without any issue (that's what I do each week in 10 & 25 men); sacred shield is pretty nice on that fight. Anyway I also did the first kill (25 men) while wearing 4t7 and a 51/0/20; but mana was more an issue due to my stuff, now i have no mana problem even with that spec/stuff.

 

Sepher

nice guide

btw the algalon 10man trinket gives 2 stacks per heal if beacon is up. just a sidenote

 

bludwork

We have a holy paladin who has extremely low healing, most of the time getting outhealed by JoL ret even a shadow priest passes him a few times.

Healer in question is Ghalone

Last nights hodir..
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

and ignis..
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

these were after I told him to start keeping up his Sacred shield since he decided it wasn't worth using it before. Can any holy paly tell wtf he's doing wrong?

 

Marcos

On Hodir, it seems like there just isn't enough damage for him to heal... Seven healers and a Retribution Paladin are serious overkill for that fight. Realistically, you should be able to handle that fight reasonably with 4 or 5 good healers and a Retribution Paladin. He appeared to be actively trying to heal the entire fight.

The same problem seems to exist on Ignis - that being too many healers for the damage taken.

Someone with more Holy experience should feel free to chime in though. This is just my observation based on the logs.

 

bludwork

Fair enough, you're right about the healer count. It just happens that we normally have more healers online than dps forcing us to take that much just to fill a raid. Here's a better parse from last week's XT hard mode kill.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

 

Hulabaloon

In my experience, any time new content is released paladins dominate the meters - tanks are taking enough damage to justify HL spam, and raid healers spend most of their time soley on raid healing.

As guilds gear up and even simply become better and more efficient at encounters (and bring too many healers) - there tends to be less healing to do, so raid healers have more free time to put their HoTs, earth shields, smart heals etc on the tank, which start "eating in" to more and more of the paladin's tank healing.

But yes, as Marcos said - 7 healers is overkill for any non-hard mode boss.

 

cremor

76% overheal on Hodir and 52% overheal on Ignis without casting JoL? That's huge. I usually have 40-50% with JoL.
This shows us two things:
1) Like Marcos already said, too many healers.
2) That paladin is healing too slowly.

One source of his slowness is clearly visible in the log:
He has absolutely never used any Judgement in those two fights, so he is missing the 15% haste buff. He should really go through his talent tree again and read the tooltip of Judgements of the Pure.

Another problem might be a wrong healing style.
Maybe he is target-casting (so targeting and then casting the healing spell) instead of using Clique or mouseover Macros?
Or maybe he is just healing reactively? This would also explain why he never used Divine Plea in those two fights (no mana problems because he casts to less heals).

And on Hodir he also never casted Beacon of Light, seems strange.

 

thedudeabides

First off, healing meters are not the same as a DPS meter, simply because of overhealing. The important thing is not how much healing is done, but whether the tank is kept alive, Divine Sacrifice is used at the right time, and the boss is killed, etc.

Like the previous poster said, this is a case of having too many healers. Holy Paladins by nature have a large percentage of their heals being waisted on overheals, and the log clearly shows this. the holy light spells cast on the Hodir fight averaged 3k healing per spell, though the spell itself heals for 10k (non-crit).

Secondly, i really seem to drop on the healing meter during high movement fights when there are good HoT healers in the group. Hodir has a lot of movement, making HoTs much more valuable. On fights like Razuvious with no movement and little overheal, i am the top of the meter, almost 5k hps. In my experience, holy paladins shine only when they have huge amounts of damage to heal, where their holy lights are landing on people with almost no health (i.e. Gluth using decimate). On fights with low/medium raid wide damage (i.e. Saph), our healing usually is towards the bottom.

The uptime of Sacred Shield uptime is low, he should be keeping the buff up on the tank all the time.

Ret Paladins with JoL in 25 man encounters will usually be very high on the healing meter, as their healing number is a result of the entire raids damage on the boss.

My last suggestion is to have him periodically evaluate the best person to beacon each time he refreshes it.

 

Riddle

I have been wondering for awhile whether [Pandora's Plea] is actually as good as people make it out to be. I know most hpaladins probably consider it to be BiS but I am wondering whether it is actually better than the two trinkets i am already using. I am using [Soul of the Dead] and [Figurine - Sapphire Owl]. I am talking about from a completely regen oriented point of view. The extra int you get from Pandora's Plea doesnt make up for the 2340 mana you gain from the JC trinket, and often you can use it twice on a fight. I also highly doubt the extra mana you gain from replenishment by having more int will add up to 2340, or 4680 (if used twice) either.. Also, Soul of the dead restores a pretty sick amount of mana, 900 every minute (or 45 sec best case scenario). So you would only need about two minutes of fighting to have the mana restore proc from Soul of the Dead equal the mana gained through int from Pandora's Plea. The crit you gain from the trinket helps mana gained from Illumination which probably offsets the extra mana you would gain from replenishment by having more int from the Plea. So basically, from my point of view it seems that the two trinkets i have are better... Someone prove me wrong please..lol. Seems like there has got to be a reason people run around with it over the other two trinkets I mentioned that I am missing.

EDIT: I am disregarding the proc on the Plea since I am assuming most of it turns into overhealing anyways and is minimally useful.

 

• frmorrison

The Plea is just plain the best overall, especially when compared to the JC trinket. Passive int is great and the proc is Plea is useful, since when it procs it is safer to use Divine Plea (due to having stronger heals with the SP proc) and it helps SS absorb more damage.

In 3.2 the Soul will be weaker due to crit's value nearly being cut in half.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

HolyCow

Thanks for the guide. One question I have is why use DI only on the last 15 seconds of bloodlust? Seems the most natural thing would be to use it on the HL following DP.

 

DiamondTear

You want to make sure that you get everything out of the DP. If you use DI and DP at the same time and suddenly get all crits, you might end up at full mana and waste some of the DP. Then again you want to use it during bloodlust because that's when you cast the most heals.

 

Varuk

The best part about Pandora's Plea, in my opinion, is actually the proc. Sacred Shield 'locks in' the spellpower modifier on cast, so if you refresh your SS every time Pandora's Plea procs you basically get a free 751 additional absorb on every single SS proc -- and that adds up real fast. It requires a little extra attention, and doesn't work so well if you aren't spec'd into Divine Guardian, but in my opinion this is just as large a benefit as the 108 Int on it is.

 

Zaroua

You're not meleeing Dark Matters nearly as aggressively as you should. You also make no mention of timing your Divine Pleas with tank cooldown. You also don't talk about using Aura Mastery as a tank cooldown or a raid cooldown.

And how the hell are you running OOM so fast? I do the fight without Innervate/Mana Tide in 10 man and I cut it close with a Prot subspec - you're almost dry 3 minutes in with a Ret subspec. And I use a resist flask too.

Edit: Not meant as a show-off, but I watched 2-3 times and I really can't figure out how you burn through mana so fast basically doing the same thing I do.

Dogma also claims that God has a sense of humor and at times presents Him as a joker of sorts, thus again lowering Him to human level. While I am certain God has a "sense of humor" since He gave it to us, I find it most difficult to believe He finds humor in sin since He will cast the unforgiven sinner into the lake of fire for eternity. Not very funny at all.

 

Sweetcharlie

Do you not think BoL on the Druid would be more useful?

 

Varuk

It could easily be a bad string of not-crits. I've seen fights where my effective crit is 15% under my paperdoll crit. When that happens, you run OOM alot faster than normal.

 

DiamondTear

Which druid? The resto druid has died like once across all tries and with a lot of time being spent healing the druid tank, much of the beacon healing would be wasted. You want to beacon yourself so you can stand far away from the group.

You're right, meleeing dark matters can net you a bit more mana, providing you can handle moving to the right position, refreshing beacon and judgement while doing it.

I don't mention syncing DP with a tank cooldown because I only use it during lust and during big bang casts and I've made it clear to the tanks and healers that there will be a few seconds left after the big bang. Might have been worth pointing out in the video like I did with my own cooldowns, though.

No idea about the mana usage.

 

Reedus

this topic is extremely helpful. I've played wow pretty much as a solo experience all the way to level 80 with almost no advice or guidance and it's been pretty easy. but the endgame is a completely different story and now I'm encountering a lot of difficulty. I recently joined a guild and they directed me to these forums for assistance. now that I know which stats to pay attention to, I can safely say that 85% of my gear is trash! ha!

I'm sure I'll have more useful info to post once I am able to put my newfound knowledge to test.

thanks!

 

HolyCow

That's actually the opposite of showing off. It basically means you're not spamming as hard he is.

 

hyperious.wow

I haven't fully read each and every comment in this thread, but I wanted to see if any other Holy Paladins out there had any good ideas for macros.

I've got the basics

/tar OT
/cast BoL
/tar MT

and the like, but I wanted to get more ideas, to see if I can build up a slightly better or more efficient arsenal.

I've started using a few that I worked out for soloing stuff, basing it on what triggers the GCD and what doesn't.

Examples

/cast Divine Favor
/cast Holy Shock

**with this one, you can set it up with the regular Holy Shock button above it nearby on a non-hotkeyed action bar, so you can see when the CD is up on it, and then you're always in a position of using it the moment DF is ready, thus giving you another instant flash or more-crit HL**

There's also this one

/cast Divine Plea
/cast Divine Illumination
/cast Avenging Wrath
/cast Aura Mastery (usually with Ret Aura on)

**That's a fun one because you get all those triggered on one GCD, you only lose 30% Healing instead of 50% (in case you actually need the healing that much), you're getting mana regen while spending only 50% on spells, and you've got the boosted damage output from ret aura during those first 10 sec.**

What macros do the other pallies use?

 

Jackinthegreen

AW is multiplicative, not additive with Divine Plea, and this has been stated many times in the thread. You'll have 60% healing with it on. It's still a boost though and you might as well use it during DP.

Also, your wording is a little ambiguous about Aura Mastery affecting Ret Aura, but at first it seemed like you were under the impression it doubles all the effects of the aura, when it actually only doubles the base part. In the case of Ret, it only doubles the base damage returned which means it'll go up to 224 damage done to an enemy that strikes whoever. This is negligible and would be best used on any of the protection auras since extra armor or resists are far more beneficial than the paltry extra damage against mobs when they attack.

Aside from those notes, DiamondTear has mentioned casting DI and DP together versus using them at different times. There are pros and cons to each one, so you may want to have a different macro in case you find a time that suits each best.