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Old 07/01/09, 12:33 PM   #916
Montegomery
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Sutiru
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Edit: Math was wrong. See posts below.

If I recall correctly Paladin healing still has an innate 50% threat reduction. As such, Righteous Fury will bring your healing threat to 72.5% of the norm (1.45 * .5) for other healers. So as roanexavier pointed out, only untanked mobs should ever bother you.

Other healing classes actually prefer to skip their -threat reduction talents for this reason. The only time mobs are going to come after you is if no one is tanking them at all, in which case all -threat talents do is change which healer is in trouble.

Last edited by Montegomery : 07/02/09 at 1:05 PM.

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Old 07/01/09, 4:42 PM   #917
aressem
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Shadowsong
Gear Comparison

Here's my dilema: I quit raiding about 2 weeks into ulduar. I got to mimiron on both 10 and 25. I just returned to raiding and I'm trying to figure out what the best combo of gear is atm. Due to infusion of light I have a really hard time giving up that 2 set T7 bonus. So here's what I've come up with... by carefully selecting the pieces to wear for 2 set T7 and 2 set T8 (leaving the chest open for whatever), I get to wear 4 pieces with all 3 stats: crit, haste and SP; no MP5. On top of that, I get to keep my 10% crit bonus to HS. Take a look below and please provide a little feedback. Thanks in advance!


4 SET T8.5 (Minus the Helm)

296 STAM (+18)
300 INT (+16)
410 SP (+28)
108 CRIT (-105)
189 HASTE (-29)
----------------
I GAIN: 18 STAM, 16 INT and 28 SP.
I LOSE: 105 CRIT and 29 HASTE.
I LOSE: 10% CRIT to Holy Shock

==============================================================

2 SET T7.5 (Gloves & Pants) | 2 Set T8.5 (Helm & Shoulders)

278 STAM (-18)
284 INT (-16)
382 SP (-28)
213 CRIT (+105)
218 HASTE (+29)
----------------
I GAIN: 105 (2%) CRIT and 29 HASTE.
I GAIN: 10% CRIT to Holy Shock (great for infusion of light).
I LOSE: 18 STAM, 16 INT and 28 SP.

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Old 07/01/09, 5:14 PM   #918
Silmeria
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Silmeriah
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Originally Posted by Darian_TruBlade View Post
If I recall correctly Paladin healing still has an innate 50% threat reduction. As such, Righteous Fury will bring your healing threat to 72.5% of the norm (1.45 * .5) for other healers.
Partially false, see: this post

The overall point still stands, of course.

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Old 07/01/09, 5:49 PM   #919
 frmorrison
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Originally Posted by thedudeabides View Post
For the 52/17/2 (or 51/20/0) spec why do you spec 3/3 Righteous Fury (6% damage reduction) versus 4/5 Toughness. Do you heal with Righteous Fury on or do you pop righteous fury 30 sec or so before Divine Sacrifice or Hand of Sacrifice to reduce your incoming damage (and then drop RF)?
Even though RF gives 67.5% aggro (compared to other healer's 50%), I have used it with no issues in Ulduar. Armor is mostly worthless for a non-tank in PvE, so you should always have RF up (and the talent too). The other advantage of RF is if a healer does pull aggro (due to tanking issues), you would pull it instead of the Priest and perhaps you can take a hit or two, while the Priest may not.

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Old 07/01/09, 6:21 PM   #920
Nekokun
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Undead Warlock
 
Earthen Ring (EU)
Me and my guild have recently been attempting some Thorim hardmode, and I was wondering what healing style is optimal for that fight.

We run with a setup of 3 healers (2 paladins, 1 druid) and the problem is that tanks die during the switch when one gets unbalancing strike. How should my timing for HL in that case be? Just ignore the target that will get Unbalancing Strike altogether? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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Old 07/01/09, 7:17 PM   #921
Mox
Piston Honda
 
Human Paladin
 
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
Originally Posted by Nekokun View Post
Me and my guild have recently been attempting some Thorim hardmode, and I was wondering what healing style is optimal for that fight.

We run with a setup of 3 healers (2 paladins, 1 druid) and the problem is that tanks die during the switch when one gets unbalancing strike. How should my timing for HL in that case be? Just ignore the target that will get Unbalancing Strike altogether? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
In 10man? Only ever done it with 2 healers, usually Pally+Priest setup. I just chain HLs on the tank thats tanking, and priest heals the raid. As long as the tanks taunt on time, and use appropiate cooldowns at 6+ stacks you should be able to heal it with HL.

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Old 07/02/09, 9:45 AM   #922
nooble
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Human Paladin
 
Ner'zhul
I also generally do Thorim hard as Holy with a Priest helping out (twice as Disc, twice as Holy).

I focus on tank, throwing a Beacon up and tossing some off heals if too many folks opt to sit in a blizzard for the first handful of stacks, after which I just keep Sacred Shield up on the current tank and precast Holy Lights as needed, overheal spamming as later stacks build up. I'm also listening for a call on vent for a failed taunt so I can BoP the tank that still has aggro with Unbalancing Strike. Throw in the occasional Aura Mastery when multiple folks in the raid dip from frost, and it's a consistent one-shot.

Three heals might draw the fight out the point that it's not easily healed, as the stacks on Thorim are too high, allowing even a non-crit to wreck a tank. It might seem intimidating to go to two, as the hits get pretty big if the fight runs long, but remember, Thorim doesn't hit hard early in the fight. Shorten the fight, and it's much easier to heal.


Related to the Righteous Fury discussion:

I switched from 51/0/20 to 54/17/0 after getting my 4pcT8 and I'm quite a fan of it, partly, to my surprise, due to Imp. Righteous Fury. I came for the improved shielding and stayed for the extra threat!

It took me a week to actually remember to turn Righteous Fury on, but aside for the obvious draw of damage reduction on big AOE phases like Mim p2, it's helped quite a few times in ensuring if a tank screws up, I get any loose adds. With 22k armor I can take a couple hits more than the other healers in the raid, allowing me to grab the mob and "nicely" remind the tanks to take it off my hands.

Last edited by nooble : 07/02/09 at 9:55 AM.

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Old 07/02/09, 10:15 AM   #923
Ranjurm
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Draenei Paladin
 
Arathor
Originally Posted by nooble View Post
I switched from 51/0/20 to 54/17/0 after getting my 4pcT8 and I'm quite a fan of it, partly, to my surprise, due to Imp. Righteous Fury. I came for the improved shielding and stayed for the extra threat!
Imp RF has not provided a threat boost since 3.0 so you don't gain any threat from going that deep down the tree, only a little mitigation.

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Old 07/02/09, 10:45 AM   #924
sno
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Dwarf Paladin
 
Grim Batol (EU)
Originally Posted by Ranjurm View Post
Imp RF has not provided a threat boost since 3.0 so you don't gain any threat from going that deep down the tree, only a little mitigation.
Well, the talent doesn't increase the threat from RF but when you have the talent you are much more inclined to actually have RF on you while healing to get the 6% damage reduction.
I think that is why they refer to extra threat, since without the talent you would not use RF at all.

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Old 07/02/09, 4:44 PM   #925
Feya
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by superfula View Post
I think you are attributing a post to me that I didn't write.

That being said, Haste is extremely valuable in current hardmodes. I can't imagine Blizzard making encounters in 3.2 and 3.3 any easier, so the need for Haste is definitely there. If the napkin math done by some is correct, that leaves Crit out in the cold. It may still be wise to have some crit gear, however not at the expense of mp5. Like Zaroua said, taking any gear without mp5 will be a mistake.

Based upon the couple raids I've done on the PTR, the decreased regen from crit was noticeable but easily replaced. Meleeing for mana has a huge upside as long as you are comfortable in melee range. I'm already below 30% crit unbuffed, so the need to melee for mana isn't new to me.

Keep in mind that this change to our mana regen directly affects encounters. Ghostcrawler has said they had to design encounters around our ability to spam HL. Now that that ability has been put into question, they are free to add other aspects to an encounter instead of the huge amount of damage the tanks take. I don't know if we'll still need to spam HL on the tank to keep him alive in 3.2, but based upon what GC has said, I really doubt it. I think the amount of damage taken by the tank in future content will be less than what we see in Ulduar, but the raid damage increased as well as the need to have better situational awareness.

We may even see changes to Ulduar encounters based upon the mana regen nerfs.

This line of discussion should probably be moved to the 3.2 thread http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t64649-h...h_3_2_changes/
I am interested in how the upcoming changes will impact our gemming. I've seen a lot of discussion here on the forums about it, but not definitive math. In the past Intellect has reigned supreme due to its ability to impact mana regeneration on a wide front (mana pool + crit + replenishment etc). While this will likely remain a vital stat, especially considering the talent nerfs from 15% int bonus to 10%.... I'm wondering if it might be worth doing a little math on the mana regeneration side of things.

Which gem style is likely to reign supreme for? Pure Intellect, or a combination of Intellect and MP5 gemming?

On a side note, I have started picking up all the BiS Plate Haste/Mp5 gear... the Crit bonuses seem largely useless with such a sizable nerf to its regen capabilities. The crafted plate healing pieces with gemslots offer the best customization for us Expensive but likely worth it.

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Old 07/02/09, 6:41 PM   #926
Varuk
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Draenei Paladin
 
Medivh
Pure Int is highly likely to continue to reign supreme. It provides slightly less raw regen as mp5 does assuming you DP every 2 minutes (more mana if you DP on cooldown), but it still increases your maximum mana which mathematically has a lot to do with it's strength as a stat. It has definitely gone from being absolutely overwhelmingly best stat to simply being our best stat, though.

Whether or not we're going to gem for socket bonuses depends on what those socket bonuses are and what colors the sockets are. If Blizzard continues the trend of giving us U/R sockets with spellpower bonuses I fully intend to continue ignoring them and putting in straight Int. If they actually start giving use yellow sockets or give us stats other than spellpower as socket bonuses things could change up -- blue sockets will be pretty low sacrifice to get, what with mp5 being nearly as good as int just put a Dazzling gem in there for nearly the same effect. Red sockets will continue to suck though.

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Old 07/04/09, 12:39 AM   #927
DiamondTear
Don Flamenco
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Lightning's Blade (EU)
I made a healing guide for Algalon.

YouTube - Paladin healing guide for Algalon

Any comments on the tactics are welcome.

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Old 07/04/09, 2:20 AM   #928
aylen86
Piston Honda
 
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Human Paladin
 
Malygos (EU)
Originally Posted by DiamondTear View Post
I made a healing guide for Algalon.

YouTube - Paladin healing guide for Algalon

Any comments on the tactics are welcome.
Nice guide. Our guild is also wiping on Algalon so any suggestions might help us.

My questions are:

Though you are raiding with 4pc t8 and not 4pc t7, you are using a crit orientated healingspec. Is it also possible to heal through this encounter with a sacred shield spec (51 - 20 - 0) or are you risking to go out of mana?
In our last attempt, I tried meeleing the mob for some SoW procs. It is in fact movement heavier because most of the cosmic smashes are landing in the melee camp. Is it a good or a bad idea and is pursuit of justice needed for that?

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Old 07/04/09, 8:59 AM   #929
DiamondTear
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Lightning's Blade (EU)
Originally Posted by aylen86 View Post
Nice guide. Our guild is also wiping on Algalon so any suggestions might help us.

My questions are:

Though you are raiding with 4pc t8 and not 4pc t7, you are using a crit orientated healingspec. Is it also possible to heal through this encounter with a sacred shield spec (51 - 20 - 0) or are you risking to go out of mana?
In our last attempt, I tried meeleing the mob for some SoW procs. It is in fact movement heavier because most of the cosmic smashes are landing in the melee camp. Is it a good or a bad idea and is pursuit of justice needed for that?
I'm using 4 pc t7, not t8. I'm sure it's possible to heal with 51/20 without running out of mana (I had 10k left with haste gear), but you benefit more from the retri talents. If I didn't have enough mana to spam my heart out, I'd probably use a stopcasting button or macro instead of meleeing and sync it with the tank using cooldowns. Melee is not a good place to be.

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Old 07/07/09, 7:48 AM   #930
PeF
Glass Joe
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Ysondre (EU)
Yes, meleeing alagalon is not a really good idea. Anyway you can stay near a black hole in order to enter as fast as possible when algalon begins his cast because while inside you can melee adds and often proc 1 or 2 sow (yes it's not amazing but that's still 2k+ free mana !)

And as Diamondtear already said you can do algalon with 4pt8 & a 50/20 spec without any issue (that's what I do each week in 10 & 25 men); sacred shield is pretty nice on that fight. Anyway I also did the first kill (25 men) while wearing 4t7 and a 51/0/20; but mana was more an issue due to my stuff, now i have no mana problem even with that spec/stuff.

Last edited by PeF : 07/07/09 at 7:07 PM.

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