Redcape's Ret DPS Calculator 3.3. (Fully updated for 3.2 patch) - Page 2

Nisall · 07/10/09, 9:18 AM

Originally Posted by Scorpiodrush

I Just used your 3.12 spreadsheet and I don't know two things. A. on the gear section do I add the +21 agi from the metagem into my Helm Data, or does the 3% on the buff section include the 21 Agi?

Second, after inputting y Data, the first page highlights Hit Rating on the Stat weights in Red says.. 217 (14) in red.
I'm guessing that means I'm Over hit value (because I am). whats the (14) mean?

The (14) means that hit rating is still worth that amount when you are above the melee hit cap due to some of our abilities being spell hit based

• frmorrison · 07/10/09, 1:13 PM

Originally Posted by Scorpiodrush

I Just used your 3.12 spreadsheet and I don't know two things. A. on the gear section do I add the +21 agi from the metagem into my Helm Data, or does the 3% on the buff section include the 21 Agi?

Second, after inputting y Data, the first page highlights Hit Rating on the Stat weights in Red says.. 217 (14) in red.
I'm guessing that means I'm Over hit value (because I am). whats the (14) mean?

I always added the 21 agility to the stats of the helm. The 3% crit buff is handled elsewhere.

The 14 means the value of hit past the 263 cap. Exo and Cons use spell hit, and will do more damage as you get more hit (but it is a small increase).

Scorpiodrush · 07/11/09, 3:47 AM

Thanks for the Help. that clears things up

gmf1 · 07/18/09, 9:30 AM

Was playing with your sheet today, the gear i chose gave a dps of 6076, the non-hard bis plate set from the Ret BIS gear list gave 6049, so mine seems slightly better. Just to check i loaded up the non-hard BIS plate set in Rawr it gave 6210dps mine was only 5676.

I am wondering the reason for such a large discrepancy between the two? While I'm sure Rawr is a great program with allot of work in it, i much prefer a sheet and using my head, so any affirmation of its reliability/accuracy vs Rawr would be appreciated.

Redcape · 07/18/09, 1:26 PM

Originally Posted by gmf1

Was playing with your sheet today, the gear i chose gave a dps of 6076, the non-hard bis plate set from the Ret BIS gear list gave 6049, so mine seems slightly better. Just to check i loaded up the non-hard BIS plate set in Rawr it gave 6210dps mine was only 5676.

I am wondering the reason for such a large discrepancy between the two? While I'm sure Rawr is a great program with allot of work in it, i much prefer a sheet and using my head, so any affirmation of its reliability/accuracy vs Rawr would be appreciated.

Our two systems use very different ways of calculating cooldowns. My sheet has default cooldowns you can muck around with and Rawr uses its own model. The most recent version of Rawr I played with allowed you to set up your own cooldowns manually if you wanted to, so I would suggest first setting those up in Rawr to be identical to the ones on my sheet. If your gear, buffs and cooldowns are the same the dps values should be very close.

If you have done all that and still see a big discrepancy then we certainly have some work to do to figure out why that is.

Redcape · 07/18/09, 8:55 PM

I have updated the FTP site linked in the first post with 2 new documents: The first is Redcape 2.5 which is the last version that is fully functional with Open Office. I likely won't be supporting it going forward, but if anyone wants to use it it is there. The other is my current working copy of my sheet with the 3.2 changes in. Things seem fine but if they aren't all working right, don't have a fit. Do let me know what isn't working though so I can make sure I didn't wreck things when I updated everything.

• frmorrison · 07/19/09, 1:01 AM

A quick look of your sheet, it is missing the new 3.2 Libram and Seals of the Pure talent (15%)is not selected by default.
The new libram is a Proc chance: 70% when SoV's DoT tics (every 3 seconds) and the buff (200 strength) lasts for 16 seconds.

Note, the Horde version of SoV is called Seal of Corruption, I guess you could call it SoCorr.

Redcape · 07/19/09, 2:42 PM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

A quick look of your sheet, it is missing the new 3.2 Libram and Seals of the Pure talent (15%)is not selected by default.

Good points. I have not modelled the Libram yet because it seems ludicrous to me that it will go live with nearly 100% uptime. It would be well above triple the power of all current librams. Does anyone know if it has a internal cooldown yet?

I am also not sure that full SotP should be default. For 25 man guilds it is a lot more likely you can get away with that, but in 10s (which is my situation) there are a lot of build possibilities. I really want to pick up Imp Devo Aura (I have it currently) as well as Vindication and no build leaves room for SotP. SotP is a DPS increase but the overall benefit to the raid is much, much higher if I pick up utility in Prot. In a 25 man situation where the 6% healing buff is covered by trees/protadins and you won't miss the SS buff as much because the tank already has one it is much more reasonable to abandon prot utility for pure dps from the holy tree.

Any build is going to include all the dps talents in ret obviously, but the points in prot and holy are very much up in the air for many raid comps, particularly in 10s.

Modal · 08/11/09, 5:21 PM

I'm trying to get your spreadsheet set up for me. I'm using the 3.2 version. I input the stats from my gear and set all raid buffs to 0 to see if I could get the stats to match what I see on my unbuffed character sheet.

There's a rounding error of +1 Str, no big deal. But weapon swing speed seems to be significantly off. I have no aura on my character except WG aura and Heroic Presence (so no 3% haste from aura or anything). I have 328 haste rating from gear, which the spreadsheet has added correctly from the gear I input. But your spreadsheet calculates a swing speed of 2.89, whereas my character sheet reads 3.01. (I'm using a 3.4 speed weapon, Worldcarver).

I can't figure out what could account for this discrepancy.

Redcape · 08/12/09, 1:18 PM

Heroism.

The sheet assumes a reasonable number of heroisms based on fight length and cooldown automatically. The weapon speed you see on the sheet is an average over the whole fight based on the number of heroisms the sheet calculates you should be entitled to.

Sometimes that number is going to be off for really long fight settings, but if you set it to 5 minutes it should be giving you some kind of reasonable numbers.

I suppose I should add a tickbox to use Heroism or not. I have a new version with all the most recent changes going live today/tomorrow, so expect that functionality added in.

Redcape · 08/12/09, 1:38 PM

Okay, a new version is up on the site now. Some things added:

Changed modeling for Berserk based on new data, assumed uptime: 75%.

Added option on Talents and Buffs page to enable or disable Heroism modelling.

Removed SoB/SoM modelling, made the front page assume SoV use.

Currently modelling JoR as proccing seals, and JoC/JoV as not doing so.

Added support for tier 9 set bonuses, new glyph and new librams.

Added the ability to save and load gearsets in the Gear section.

Added additional information on overall performance to back pages to reduce clicking around.

Updated for increased profession perks in 3.2.

Changed CS, Judgement and Seal information to match 3.2 models.

Changed default delays to match new rotation styles.

Enjoy!

Modal · 08/12/09, 2:00 PM

Added option on Talents and Buffs page to enable or disable Heroism modelling.

Thanks. I've been trying to use it to get data about some non-standard sorts of situations, where I don't want to assume heroism.

Here's another question. If I set the fight length to something really short, like, say, 15s, will it accurately model the ramp-up involved in SoV?

Redcape · 08/13/09, 4:27 PM

Originally Posted by Modal

Thanks. I've been trying to use it to get data about some non-standard sorts of situations, where I don't want to assume heroism.

Here's another question. If I set the fight length to something really short, like, say, 15s, will it accurately model the ramp-up involved in SoV?

Not at all.

It assumes you are ramped up for SoV calculations. Keep in mind that for short fights lots of other buffs are off too - you won't have Sunder fully stacked, you may not have a full SP buff, 13% spelldamage sometimes won't be applied... there are so many difficult to pin down variables in 15 second fights that a definitive model isn't really achievable. It won't apply heroism or AW if the fight duration is extremely short either, since modeling a 10 second fight with AW and Heroism up really has no value that I can see. Given that we can't accurately model the very first few seconds of a fight because buffs, positioning, holding off on dps for aggro purposes etc. all mess it up royally I think the most useful model is just to ignore that part and look at ongoing dps numbers.

By my rough calculations SoR is the best seal for up to 10 second fights, and SoV is definitely ahead at 12 seconds and longer. Between 10 and 12 seconds the calculations are overly complex because you have to figure out a variety of rotations to see which makes the most damage. Regardless, the damage model at the moment is only looking at sustained damage.

Modal · 08/13/09, 6:43 PM

I think the most useful model is just to ignore that part and look at ongoing dps numbers.

Totally agree, and that was what I expected. Just thought I'd ask if you had tried to do anything like this. I know the latest version of Rawr includes a field to enter a number of target switches, so they must have some kind of modeling going on for ramp-up.

My own quick math suggested SoV wouldn't usually catch up for me until about 15-16s in (it becomes better sooner than that, but that's when the total damage done by SoV would equal the total damage done by SoR). But I think the numbers I was using then assumed various procs & things that you wouldn't want to include for such a short window.

One more request: I don't see any place in your spreadsheet where it outputs numbers from Holy Vengeance. I'd like to be able to see how much my Holy Vengeance ticks for, per stack. Think you could put that in the next version, alongside the numbers for strikes & seals & such?

Redcape · 08/13/09, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by Modal

Totally agree, and that was what I expected. Just thought I'd ask if you had tried to do anything like this. I know the latest version of Rawr includes a field to enter a number of target switches, so they must have some kind of modeling going on for ramp-up.

My own quick math suggested SoV wouldn't usually catch up for me until about 15-16s in (it becomes better sooner than that, but that's when the total damage done by SoV would equal the total damage done by SoR). But I think the numbers I was using then assumed various procs & things that you wouldn't want to include for such a short window.

One more request: I don't see any place in your spreadsheet where it outputs numbers from Holy Vengeance. I'd like to be able to see how much my Holy Vengeance ticks for, per stack. Think you could put that in the next version, alongside the numbers for strikes & seals & such?

The SoV section gives a summed total of both types of damage, the dot and the strikes. I could separate it out easily enough, though normally I don't see much of an advantage to doing so.

Modal · 08/14/09, 4:14 PM

It's not really useful if your goal is to answer questions about gear upgrades and which seal to use. I'd just like to have the numbers available for other theorycrafting purposes. I can calculate them myself, of course, but it would be nice not to have to.

Redcape · 08/14/09, 4:36 PM

Originally Posted by Modal

It's not really useful if your goal is to answer questions about gear upgrades and which seal to use. I'd just like to have the numbers available for other theorycrafting purposes. I can calculate them myself, of course, but it would be nice not to have to.

You can just separate the two terms in the SoV field if you want. The terms are:

dot
('Base Numbers'!B20%*'Ability Use Information'!M10+'Base Numbers'!B19%*'Ability Use Information'!M9)*(1+'Ability Use Information'!M20%)*(1+'Talents And Buffs'!E20%)

Strike
((Gear!R16+'Ability Use Information'!M9/14)*Gear!R15*'Base Numbers'!B21%)*(1+'Ability Use Information'!M20%)*((1/'Ability Use Information'!M17+1/IF(Main!B30=0,1000000, Main!B30)+1/IF(Main!B29=0,1000000, Main!B29))*'Ability Use Information'!M21%+1/IF(Main!B31=0,1000000, Main!B31)*MIN(100, 100-'Base Numbers'!E7+'Ability Use Information'!M14)%)*(1+'Ability Use Information'!M12%*(1+'Talents And Buffs'!H7%*2))*(1+'Talents And Buffs'!E11%)*(1+'Talents And Buffs'!E20%)

On the sheet there is a + between them in the SoV field. Just plop those into any field in the sheet with a = at the beginning and the displayed number is what you are looking for.

Joe1234 · 08/20/09, 2:13 AM

Just a request for some help...I'm running office 97 and I can't seem to get the newest version of the spreadsheet to work. I'm sure it's just my lack of technical skill using .xmsl files but the only version I can get to work is version 2.5. Is it possible to use the SoV results from ver 2.5 for rough gear decisions? Or is there some kind soul out there who could share their excel version of ver 3.3?

Redcape · 08/20/09, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Joe1234

Just a request for some help...I'm running office 97 and I can't seem to get the newest version of the spreadsheet to work. I'm sure it's just my lack of technical skill using .xmsl files but the only version I can get to work is version 2.5. Is it possible to use the SoV results from ver 2.5 for rough gear decisions? Or is there some kind soul out there who could share their excel version of ver 3.3?

At this point the 2.5 spreadsheet isn't really useful unfortunately. The SoC and SoV numbers are going to be way off and SoB isn't a thing anymore. The stat weightings I get with my gear (which is pretty near BIS for 10 man hardmodes) is:

Hit rating 198 (36)
Strength 197
Exp rating 116
Crit rating 96
Agility 91
Haste rating 80
Armor Pen rating 82
Attack Power 78
Spell Power 25

You can just use these going forward and it should give you good results.