Any thougts on the new stamina trinkets from brewfest? The /use seems to suck, but it's a solid 170 stamina.

You don't get more strength; the strength bonus from sanc and kings are mutually exclusive. Also, TbtL change is probably a drop in spellpower for most tanking paladins, not a gain.

It depends. The changes are based around a 2 STA to 1 STR ratio (which is roughly the case with most tanking gear). If you have 2000 STA and 1000 STR (before buffs, etc) you will see no TPS difference before the 10% cut in Righteous Fury. If you have a ratio skewed more towards STR then the TBtL change will help you bridge the gap created by the 10% nerf. If you are (like me) skewed towards STA in the ratio then there will be an additional loss on top of the 10% cut.

Yup - completely misread the change (STR vs STA). Sorry about that.

Right now, I'm sitting at 2602 STA and 1165 STR, so I'm dropping from 781 SP to 699 SP, which by itself is a 10.5% drop. I'm not having any threat issues currently, but the gap would certainly appear to be closing with the DPS behind me. I'll need to go back to the drawing board, it would seem.

So with 3.2.2 I've got three major questions to ask.

1) Is Libram of Sacred Shield > Libram of Obstruction?
Now that they are mutually exclusive and the effect from Libram of Sacred Shield has been buffed to the proper level.

2) With the change to Seal of Command it seems that this should be the new "trash" seal in raids on anything that has less then, oh, say 500k life, and especially for group pulls (Emalon adds or Anub adds). Is my napkin math wrong or should i not respec to allow Seal of Command?

3) And finally Does the change to threat (10% deduction to RF and shift to TbtL) warrant a re-gemming to STR rather than the typical STA stacking most tanks do? Has anyone done the calculations on the actual threat lost if you are at a 2:1 or 2.5:1 STA:STR ratio (STA heavy)?

Thanks and sorry for the bombardment of questions. More Patchs = More Problems

1) I don't know, is 450 better than 352? I haven't ran any math on it yet but I'll be sure to spreadsheet it later on to find out.
2) Trash will still be agro'ed by hammer of the righeousness which deals 2/3k holy damage in one gcd, this should be ample frontloaded threat, after that you should just use the highest dps/tps seal, which is still SoV.
3) Of course not.

I use both atm, I'd say that they are superior to [The Black Heart] or [Figurine - Monarch Crab] at least.

In my opinion... I really don't see either of the Brewfest trinkets as being better than the Black heart and the Monarch Crab, or even the Royal Seal of King Llane and Heart of Iron. The mitigation gained from the passive and /use on the trinkets I mentioned seem to out weigh the higher stam offered in the Brewfest trinkets. Correct me if I'm wrong, because I very well could be. I just don't see that giving up mitigation through passive/on use items to just a little more stam as being that more superior.

Like just about everything, it depends on the fight - I've picked up one of the Brewfest trinkets (and plan to get the other) and I'll likely use them for heavy magic-damage fights where the armor proc from Black Heart, the Dodge from Monarch Crab, etc will only affect the (typically quite weak) melee damage from a caster. Having said that, I would consider Black Heart the far superior piece for anything with a decent amount of physical damage.

As for threat, don't forget that RF is actually going from 190% to 180% which is only a net less of 5% of your overall threat.

Llane might still be better 15 stam vs 5% parry use is not a nobrainer. But comparing 45 stam to an armor proc that's up only 10 sec every 50 it's not really worth it in my opinion. Rather have higher healthpool to soak damage the way things look now.

The mitigation from Black Heart's armor proc is in most cases considerably superior to the extra stam on the BF trinket when considering physical damage. Remember that mitigation is just as much a factor for determining EH as stam is. The cases where you might prefer the stam trinket is when you expect your big hits to be magical damage and thus unaffected by armor.

Hoping i'm not saying any stupid now, but i've had 2 of my prot paladins confirm my thoughts, prior to 3.2.2 HotR used to chain "all around" you, no?

It seems that has been changed in 3.2.2, HotR will only chain to targets that are actually in your field of view, the problem can easily be reproduced at the horde level 60 target dummies in Orgrimmar, if you stand with your back to the other dummies only one will get hit by HotR, but if you have all 4 of them in your field of view, they will all get hit.

As far as I can remember the cleave effect only affects targets in front of you; The ability remains unchanged.

Hi, should the Prot Talents stack with buffs like Power Word: Fortitude and Kings?

A warrior gets through talents 6% more stam and a Paladin 14% more stam.
Warior without buffs 42k HP and me 40k HP

after buffs he got something like 50k HP and me 48k HP, so the difference is still the same, but it should be smaller cause a paladin gets more stamina through Talents.

After that i made some tests
unbuffed 3114 stam
with Kings 3425 stam = 10% more, so seems like talents dont add only the Kings buff itself.

I missed a change? because wowwiki says:

With both Sacred Duty and Combat Expertise, paladins have a stamina modifier of 1.145, which does stack with buffs such as Blessing of Kings and Blessing of Sanctuary. The combination of Sacred Duty, Combat Expertise, and Blessing of Kings provides a ~26% increase in health or 12.6 health per point of stamina.

Er, the 3,114 figure you quoted is including talents. If you went over to a paladin trainer and unlearnt your talents you'd be at somewhere around 2,720 stamina.

2,720 * 1.06 * 1.08 = 3,114

3,114 * 1.1 = 3,425

yeah i know, but the 3114 is only gear, my questions was what is with buffs like Kings and Priest Stam

the talents say overall Stamina so the talents should calculate after fullbuffed and not before.

Keep in mind that Commanding Shout is a strict HP increase and not STA (same goes for flask .e.g.)
As such it is not affected by Kings or talents (which usually increase STA and not HP values).

Any thoughts about [Burnished Quel'Serrar]? I did a short testing on the target dummy and it should have a 50% buff uptime:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis (-->Buffs gained)

172 autohits, 40 proccs, so I assume it has a 20%-25% proccchance with no ICD.

74 STA, 55 Defrating and ~770 AC should make it a decent tanking weapon.

As there's no real need for two threads on the same spec, please take your discussion to The Protection Paladin Field Manual (WoW-3.0/WotLK).