Jackinthegreen

Valithria Dreamwalker:
Now that's definitely a new encounter mechanic. I would surmise that we'd beacon her and heal whoever else needed healing. Given how much HP bosses have it also seems HL+Int would be the best to use since it provides superior HPS to FoL+SP anyway and there isn't going to be any overhealing done except to players, and overhealing is even encouraged due to Beacon accounting for it.

The best index to a person's character is (a) how he treats people who can't do him any good and (b) how he treats people who can't fight back. Abigail Van Buren

 

The Box

Looking at the feedback thread for the fight ( World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Valithria Dreamwalker - Feedback (10/30) ), it sounds like beacon isn't functioning in our favor. Beaconing Valithria and healing the raid doesn't result in transferred heals, and vice versa, because she's not a raid or party member. This could be a bug, but it's likely not, as it would be a great incentive to stack Holy Paladins. There's a comment somewhere in there about the FoL heal.
I assume this is the debuff of which he's speaking. Though even with the healing increase, HL would scale just as much, and with the large amounts of regen that it appears the debuff gives, I think I'm going to wear my fingers out mashing HL.

 

Eilith

It seems [Glyph of Beacon of Light] is still bugged in terms of duration. If you cast it once, the buff will expire as it should after 90 seconds, but you will still heal the beacon target for another 30 seconds after the buff itself has expired. If you cast Beacon of Light twice on yourself (if you have it, and then refresh it before the duration has expired) the duration will be 120 seconds and you will continue healing yourself through Beacon for another 30 seconds making the full duration 150 seconds. As I see it, the latter has primarily an implication in PvP, because it might make beacon worth taking over Seal of Wisdom. I have found a mention on the official forums about this (World of Warcraft (en) Forums -> Glyph of Beacon of Light), but none here at EJ.
I noticed it by accident when I was doing 3v3 with my PvE spec and glyphs and noticed that BoL continued healing me even after the buff had dropped and after continued experimentation I noticed that the 30 seconds after the buff has dropped applies to anyone you've beaconed and not just yourself.

I haven't established that this works beyond doubt in all scenarios. For instance, I still refresh Beacon in most heroic ToC fights as it expires, but I have noticed that it heals after the duration has expired when I beacon myself in the Faction Champions fight.

 

• frmorrison

It has been mentioned, this bug has been around for a while. It is an interesting bug, but it seems they have bigger things to work on. Note the only bug is the "hidden" 30 second duration.

Yes, this favors holy pallies. Assuming the FoL HoT interaction goes live, you will need to weave in a FoL between HL at least. I think the Beacon not working on the boss is intended.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Eilith

Ah, I read this in the 3.2 patch notes and figured that they actually fixed it. Or at least the increased duration when cast on self.
Since it's a known bug, I'm curious about if people account for it in their play style? Is there an addon that tracks the hidden 30 seconds extra we get from the glyph? Is it reliable?

 

Jackinthegreen

Beacon still being bugged, I wouldn't count on using it in any encounter without testing it for that one first, and even then it might not be reliable..

Beacon just plain not working on Dreamwalker is a sound design choice, I'll admit... If it goes live with FoL still having the current interaction, switching to 4pT9 would certainly give some great numbers, especially since the SP librams would gain greater ground. Ret could get insane numbers too both on healing and damage if they stacked the Emerald Vigor.

The best index to a person's character is (a) how he treats people who can't do him any good and (b) how he treats people who can't fight back. Abigail Van Buren

 

• frmorrison

I misspoke earlier. You only get 90 seconds with glyph and then the hidden 30. I don't know to track that with addons.

That may be a good time to use 4 piece, at least until you get T10 pieces. I hate using gear setups for different encounters.

Ret and other healing-able hybrids may be getting some interesting numbers .

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

jdh79

I think what you're going to want to do for this fight if beacon is not transferring to Valithria is have your holy paladins assigned to spam HL on her with the tank or someone else beaconed. Even without getting full benefit from beacon transfers, we still are going to be better equipped to put out massive single target HPS than any other healing spec.

However, beacon not working on this encounter is a little unusual, because on at least 3 similar encounters with friendly NPCs, I have had this method work for me (Razuvius understudies, spider tanks on pre-Mimiron trash, Bronzebeard during the tribunal event in HoS)

 

Rataard

I was under the impression beacon only effects party and raid members.

It works on razuvius understudies, b/c when they're mind controlled they're pets for the priests.
It works for spider tanks on mim trash b/c they're vehicles controlled by the raid members.
I was not aware it worked on the bronzebeard event, that's interesting. I've toyed with it in CoS runs, but it doesn't appear to work with arthas.

 

gcbirzan

For tracking the +30 seconds BoL, try this, copy it in clcpbt's directory. Two things to note, it assumes you have glyph of BoL and if you cancel the BoL buff at around 30 seconds it will break.

Attached Files

core.lua (35.4 KB, 31 views)

 

Ohrly

k, straight off the bat you won't hit 44% crit without having the 8% crit from ret, which removes the raid utility of Divine Sacrafice. For the real hardmodes, this may not be feasable. Even if you look at some of the best geared Holy Paladins in the world, for instance Ilonie, of Paragon.
( The World of Warcraft Armory)
You're seeing sensational figures, but the chance of such high crit unbuffed, is unlikely.

I personally do have 44% crit, in my 51/0/20 spec when I use 4 parts tier 7.5, but few paladins would use this set up for healing an actual raid.


Raid buffed, you're going to get an extra 8% crit, not 10%. you get 5% from improved boomkin aura, or elemental oath, and a further 3% from totem of wrath, but the suppliers of 5% do not stack. Also, you're only going to get that 10% holy shock crit if you're using two parts t7, which as I said, few actually do if they have access to t8, or t9.

Next, Holy Shock is adverse for your healing per second, this means that the more you use holy shock, the less you'll heal. The reason for this, is that holy shock triggers a global cooldown, which is going to stop you casting your next spell for about 1 second ( subject to haste ). As such, you're advised to use holy shock only in situations its required. i.e when its a case of instant heal someone, or they'll die.

Spell power, as stated previously is only a concern to paladins who specialise in the flash of light style of healing, usually to support another int spec'd paladin. Remember that you're not out to solo heal raid encounters. The reason we avoid unneccesary spell power, is that we generally run at 80%+ overhealing. Now if 80% of your heals are concidered wasted, you can go on to hypothesise that increasing your spel power, will mainly increase your overhealing. The same argument can be made towards haste, but unlike spell power, haste does increase the chances of saving someone's life by getting that heal in earlier.

Now as I said with the mp5, there are more effective ways of regenerating mana.
Int - you regain 1% of your maximum mana every 5 seconds from replenishment
- you regain 25% of your max mana ( potentially ) every minute with Divine plea.
- you have a chance to regain 4% of your max mana every time you judge/mele a target while you have seal of wisdom active.
- If you're a blood elf, you gain 6% of you max mana every 2 minutes with arcane torrent.

The above in conjunction actually strive to make intellect, a more powerful regen stat for us, than mp5. napkin math shows 20 int ( i.e, the gem ) to be worth 11.3 mp5. clearly showing that point for point, int outweighs mp5 for regen.

This is why paladins who spam Holy Light, also stack intellect. Without the mana regen to maintain Casting throughout the fight, we'd be useless. So we steer clear of " throughput " stats, and stack " regen" stats.

Edit:

It would seem the gentleman to whom I was replying, has removed the posts he made. whether this was done by his own choice or not, is anyone's guess. My apologies for what much look like an incredibly out of context post.

 

Anaram

Not really clear on what you are responding to here, but you get 5% from moonkin or elemental shaman and some fraction of a percent from arcane intellect. Additionally you might get 3% crit against hostile targets from totem of wrath (but never to heals).

 

Ohrly

Hmm, I could be totally wrong on that one, but I was always under the impression we recieved 8% spell crit from elemental shamans. And yeah, I wasn't factioning in any crit from int buffs.

edit:
Having looked at the tooltip for totem of wrath, I have to agree, it clearly states its only against enemies. I guess in that case we only get 5% crit from raid buffs, and not the 8%, that for some reason I had assumed. I think the mistake came from rawr.

Yeah, when you toggle Totem of wrath on rawr, it increases your crit by 3%. My apologies for the incorrect information.

 

• frmorrison

This is a side effect of Rawr being a one-size-fits-all application, that hostile target only crit buffs can affect healing numbers. The spell power from ToW still affects your healing.

When clicking buffs, you do need to use a sanity check to not click buffs that you normally miss or don't affect healing.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Aquaman7

About gemming for spell power with a flash of light build, is there anyway to measure the sacred shield improvements?

 

Sansei

WOL (world of logs) displays sacred shield absorbs, but i'm not sure how accurate the numbers are. Otherwise, you can make an estimation: The coefficient to absorb amounts from spell power and its calculation is known (500 + 75% of SP was it ?) so you can estimate the improvements you get with SP gemming. You can add on top of that the powerful FoL heals, which will give you more powerful FoL HoTs. The equation of how SP scales for FoL was in discussion a few pages back if I'm not mistaken.

 

Terlig

MMO: Do they mean IoL will make FoL HoT on target with Sacred Shield, or EVERY flash will leave a HoT with IoL talent? Crazy O.o

 

Palados

First. So that prot/ret don't have hot while holy do (with every fol on SS target). They reverted the shield nerf though.

 

Terlig

So i read, but it's a bit crazy.

Besides, LoH change is temporary, i am suppose - because otherwise Holy Paladins would be able to "turn off" Divine Protecion from Protection Paladins by causing forberance on them with LoH.

 

Palados

It's fine, LoH will have it's price and at least can be used on ourselves again. Technically you can "turn off" DP already now by applying HoP.

 

• frmorrison

Doubtful. I think Bibi messed up with his parsing of the changes, it means FoL with SS up with leave the HoT. This is done to reduce non-Holy healing.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

matthewseidl

So with beacon on the tank, a FoL build with enough haste to cap FoL at 1s could be effectively putting 2xFoL's into the tank every second. 1 FoL directly (cast on a random raid member) and 12x 1/12 hots on 12 different raid members. Still not likely to get the HPS of FL spam on two tanks, but for a single tank fight or a tank+raid damage situation, this seems like a major buff.

 

Palados

I guess SS is still a requirement, only thing we know is that official patch notes have the line:

The talent description is a bit misleading in my opinion.

 

• Mex

The difference is that HoPing the tank isn't something that happens over the course of most fights, whereas LoHing the tank is. I don't think there was anything malicious in the suggestion (ie use LoH so the tank can't use DP and get them killed!), moreso just bemoaning the fact that this means that Paladin tanks can't effectively be LoHed anymore, should it be required.

Regarding the FoL changes, the way I read it was simply that everything would continue to function as it does currently, with the exception that the IoL talent is required for the HoT to proc (SS will remain a requirement). I can't see any reasonable justification for implementing any other interpretation of the change.

People tend to hold overly favorable views of their abilities in many social and intellectual domains. ... this overestimation occurs, in part, because people who are unskilled in these domains suffer a dual burden: Not only do these people reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the metacognitive ability to realize it.

 

jdh79

One of the big concerns with the newest changes that I see is with LoH causing forbearance and holy pallies being able to use LoH as a tank cooldown as we do now. If a holy pally uses LoH on a prot pally, they are now locked out of their shield wall for 2 mins. Even on non pally tanks, this is a problem. For example, P1 of Beasts, generally you want to BoP the tank after Gormok is down (or sometimes when the other tank has taunted) to clear impale stacks. With this change, a pally using LoH within 2 minutes of this could be causing a wipe. No other cooldown a healer can use on a tank (pain supression, GS, Hand of Sacrifice) has this type of dangerous side effect. I am hoping they come out with another adjustment to a deep holy talent that removes the forbearance effect from LoH on holy pallies.