I've noticed on situations where the raid is taking huge amounts of damage at the same time, a bubbled Divine Sacrifice doesn't turn off once it reaches the 150% health mark.
This has been talked about in the Holy Paladin Thread for 3.1. It has nothing to do with 3.2. And yes: If you DiSac + Bubble you have unlimited life, so your DiSac soaks up damage for the whole 10 seconds bubble time.
This has been talked about in the Holy Paladin Thread for 3.1. It has nothing to do with 3.2. And yes: If you DiSac + Bubble you have unlimited life, so your DiSac soaks up damage for the whole 10 seconds bubble time.
Here's one Divine Sacrifice casted on Hodir's Frozen Blows. It "heals" 90k Damage.
Yes, it has been discussed in the 3.1 thread, and the main conclusion about this seems to be that the talent is bugged. Sometimes you will get it to last for the whole duration, some other times not. It seems to be dependant on how the incoming damage happens. For instance, DS seems to always last for its full duration on XT-002 Deconstructor, however it doesn't seem to last so long on Mimiron.
Yes, it has been discussed in the 3.1 thread, and the main conclusion about this seems to be that the talent is bugged. Sometimes you will get it to last for the whole duration, some other times not. It seems to be dependant on how the incoming damage happens. For instance, DS seems to always last for its full duration on XT-002 Deconstructor, however it doesn't seem to last so long on Mimiron.
The combat log clearly shows it falling off early, and it is not a one time thing.
Unless it has been fixed since then (I don't remember any post or patch note about it), I don't think we can affirm it is working 100% of the time.
That post is not really that meaningful, it doesn't list the actual damage being absorbed and it's before 3.1.2 (2009-05-19) which introduced this change:
# Paladins
* Divine Sacrifice: Damage done to the Paladin while this is active will no longer cause the effect to break early, and if it is dispelled or cancelled early, the damage counter will reset correctly the next time the spell is cast.
Even though it doesn't directly affect the subject at hand, who knows how it might interact with divine shield, and I remember there being an agreement that it now works 'well' with divine shield.
There have been some reports of it falling off early even after that, but I don't have any logs of it falling off early, if you can provide any, that would be helpful.
Valkyrs in the Coliseum seem to be ideal for paladins as there are multiple targets taking damage similar to Freya's roots all the time in that fight in addition to two tanks. Sadly I forgot to compare HPS on that fight.
This is my first time posting, but I've been an avid reader of these forums for a long time. I recently specced holy/prot a few weeks ago after I got my 4pc. I used DiSac on Hodir a few weeks ago and it absored 171k dmg. Funny enough, according to the log, it lasted 13sec.
Now since I've respecced and started using it. I have yet to see it fall off early for large amounts of dmg, but for smaller amounts, it doesn't always last long. For example, I used it on Ignis and it only lasted 3sec. But that same night I used it on Auriaya and it lasted the full 10sec. The following day, Freya and thorim...10sec.
Back to the 3.2 topic. As it stands right now, I can pretty much holy light spam all day long. I rarely, if ever use pots or DP. I melee for wisdom procs when needed on fights that its safe to do so. We attempted IC HM steelbreaker and I was steelbreaker healer and was able to stay almost at full mana, just by staying in melee range with auto attack turned on and holy light spamming with breaks to cleanse fusion punch. I use DP only in times were there are breaks, I.E. Hodir frozen blows, mimiron phase changes or times with low inc dmg. With the changes to 3.2 I'm not to terribly worried. All it means is I'll actually have to use a pot for once and I'll have to control my DP use a little more. Add in the ability to still melee for wisdom, I'm not really worried. There are many fights where I choose to holy light spam, just because I can. The tank/raid isnt taking a ton of dmg and flash of light would be efficient enough. It just means I'll have to actually think about what to cast, rather then mindlessly casting HL. And being a pally in the Sunwell days, its nothing new. Also, I used the divinity glyph early on and switched to BoL glyph in Ulduar. I can't ever recall needing to LOH myself cause I was so low on mana. Its a very situational glyph and I find beacon glyph to be far better. With the changes to LOH anyway, I'd rather save it for a tank.
Well as it's been discussed and shown on the WoW forums, Beacon of Light no longer benefits from double dipping with healing modifiers. That means healing Hunter pets or Mute Rogues/Feral Druids and getting more healing done on the tank isn't going to work; flipside is that Beacon will work through Mortal Strike-type debuffs. Before the presses are stopped I think it'd be nice to point out that being able to ignore negative healing effects is very likely an oversight and it's likely the changes aren't final.
If Beacon goes live that way however, I feel most Paladins are going to be in serious trouble for healing hard mode content.
Edit:
Live = I heal Warlock for 4000 effective healing, Beacon heals me for 4000. Warlock puts on Demon Armor, I heal Warlock for 4800 effective healing, Beacon heals me for 4800.
PTR = I heal Warlock for 4000 healing, Beacon heals me for 4000. Warlock puts on Demon Armor, I heal Warlock for 4800 healing, Beacon heals me for 4000.
Last edited by Zaroua : 07/24/09 at 8:15 AM.
Theorycrafting procedures per role:
DPS = Theory -> Spreadsheet -> Practice
Healing = Theory -> Practice -> Logs
Tanking = Theory -> Theory -> Theory
Well as it's been discussed and shown on the WoW forums, Beacon of Light no longer benefits from double dipping with healing modifiers. That means healing Hunter pets or Mute Rogues/Feral Druids and getting more healing done on the tank isn't going to work; flipside is that Beacon will work through Mortal Strike-type debuffs.
For one, Beacon didn't double dip. Really, it didn't. That wasn't the point. The point was getting the healing modifiers from somebody you don't care about healing (but had high modifiers), via Beacon of Light, on the person you care about. The heal just gets copied As Is.
Secondly, you misunderstood or are just being vague about the change. It worked 'through' Mortal Strike debuffs before, and it still does, only differently. Now, on live, you can heal a target that's not affected and the person with Beacon of Light will get fully healed, even if they are affected by Mortal Strike. On 3.2, if the person you're healing is affected by a Mortal Strike debuff, the person with BoL will get healed for the full amount. But if they have the debuff, then it gets reduced. Mind you, I haven't tested with Mortal Strike, only with healing increasing talents and found that the base heal gets copied, then healing modifiers are applied.
If Beacon goes live that way however, I feel most Paladins are going to be in serious trouble for healing hard mode content.
Why? All people claim that mindless 'HL spam' is over. However almost never it was really a spam. It was shown that for 50% HL-crit pala his effectiveness (effective mana pool) is dropped by 20% only (and even less if you have less crit). In 90% of encounters extra mana pot and one more DP would keep the number of HLs casted on exactly the same level. Only in encounters where you really spam HL without lot of movement your HPS will go down.
Let me stress it once more, in 3.1 you would be able to keep exactly same HPS level for 80%+ of time you could do it now. Or decrease your HPS by around 20% and 'last' a full duration. With our abysmal 'HL-spam' HPS the nerf is really not that big as people think.
One person saying DiSac is nerfed doesn't mean much (I doubt a Blue would mention it), since people can troll at MMO forums.
Even if it is, the extra SS buffs, Divinity (so you can spam heals on yourself for 10% bonus on the Beacon), and imp Devo are outstanding for 10 mans.
DivSac was "fixed" to cap at 150% of the Pal's health. Beacon was changed to no longer transfer bonus healing effects.
The SS buff talent is nice, around ~475 extra shielding per proc...Imp Devo is nice in smaller content assuming there's no Druids or Prot Paladins around. 25 man it's useless, especially with Druid Gods in 3.2, I can't imagine not having a Tree in any raid. The rest of the Prot tree is pretty pointless. Ret gets us 8% crit and a 3% chance to crit debuff which is equally useful as Imp Devo in 10 mans as well as Imp Might, also extremely useful.
Did they change the bonus 4p T9? "Increases the heal over time effect from Flash of Light in conjunction with Sacred Shield by 100%." (I don't know if it's ok to quote the source...)
Did they change the bonus 4p T9? "Increases the heal over time effect from Flash of Light in conjunction with Sacred Shield by 100%." (I don't know if it's ok to quote the source...)
That was changed a few weeks ago (before it was a weak 5% crit to HL), since that HoT should prove very useful in 3.2. It will help Ret too for times when the bad fire is coming you could pre-HoT.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
That was changed a few weeks ago (before it was a weak 5% crit to HL), since that HoT should prove very useful in 3.2. It will help Ret too for times when the bad fire is coming you could pre-HoT.
Good to know, so we could potentially triple FoL efficiency on a SS target? It looks like they're really trying to make FoL a viable spell with the new patch. Now we just have to get rid of that lame 2p bonus... what were they thinking when they chose it? >_>
Good to know, so we could potentially triple FoL efficiency on a SS target? It looks like they're really trying to make FoL a viable spell with the new patch.
FoL would only be 3 times as effective when not spammed as spamming it will reset the HoT.
FoL would only be 3 times as effective when not spammed as spamming it will reset the HoT.
Well the hot itself will make the spamming less needed, plus SS effect must be on for it to proc, which can only happen once every 6sec... so in the end I think 4p T9 would dramatically make healing less stressful for paladins
Well the hot itself will make the spamming less needed, plus SS effect must be on for it to proc, which can only happen once every 6sec... so in the end I think 4p T9 would dramatically make healing less stressful for paladins
The buff you apply has to be on, not the proc. And the SS can belong to any paladin in the raid.
Secondly, the HoT is only a 6th of FoL's healing, a quarter of a normal hit if the HoT was created by a FoL crit. While spamming FoL until you get a crit might sound like a good idea in theory, it really depends on the amount of incoming damage and if you can spare not casting HL in that time. The problem is then, if the damage is so light, you don't need to use HL. There's also the issue of the HoT not being copied via Beacon of Light (not sure if that's been fixed, and I cannot log in on the PTR for some bizarre reason), but, yeah, it's a pretty decent bonus, it will bring the healing per second spent casting of FoL to above that of HL on targets with SS on.
Secondly, the HoT is only a 6th of FoL's healing, a quarter of a normal hit if the HoT was created by a FoL crit.
Last I checked the HoT in full was equal to the FoL used, and would still be equal to the crit as well. If you had said a sixth of the -Paladin's- healing, then that might be more in line. Still, the 4pT9 is awesome. Between casting FoL and HL on our target, and maybe a shock here or there to proc an instant FoL we should still be doing great healing while being good on mana too.
Last I checked the HoT in full was equal to the FoL used, and would still be equal to the crit as well. If you had said a sixth of the -Paladin's- healing, then that might be more in line. Still, the 4pT9 is awesome. Between casting FoL and HL on our target, and maybe a shock here or there to proc an instant FoL we should still be doing great healing while being good on mana too.
Sorry, meant if you're spamming.
Edit: I never said it's not good, just that I think we're overestimating our use of FoL on SS targets in 3.2.
Ah, then you've hit it on the bullseye. Of note of course is it becomes a third of the heal with 4pT9.
Duh statement following:
Overall though, I think the most effective strategy for healing will be to keep the HoT rolling as much as possible, then toss out heals as needed elsewhere. I'd say we've gotten plenty of buffs to let us mostly overlook the regen nerfs.
Between casting FoL and HL on our target, and maybe a shock here or there to proc an instant FoL we should still be doing great healing while being good on mana too.
What's the point of using holy shock to proc infusion of light?
The libram change makes the idea of a FoL build a little more apealing. HL to keep lights grace up. Libram procs help out the FoL spam. This would allow you to react faster with a HL in the event of a spike.
Would you even use the Coliseum libram over say the Relentless Gladiator Libram? (Increases spell power of Flash of Light by 436) While the extra spell power from the Coliseum libram would also apply to Holy Light, Holy Shock, and Sacred Shield, with it being a proc based libram anyway you couldn't even rely on the buff when you may need it.
Using the Relentless Gladiator's libram and spell power gemming your FoL spell power will be ~4k raid buffed. Combine that with the new 4pc t9 and you have a very decent FoL HoT.
on PTR, is it possible for 3 holy paladins to have 3 Beacon of Light on the tank and all spam heal others and all 3 heals goes to the tank ? or will it just bug as it does on live ?
also if 1 paladin keeps SS on the tank and 3 holy paladins Flash of Light the target, will it come 3 HoTs or just 1 from the one who applied SS on the tank ?
If not I feel that more than 1-2 Paladins are waste.
on PTR, is it possible for 3 holy paladins to have 3 Beacon of Light on the tank and all spam heal others and all 3 heals goes to the tank ? or will it just bug as it does on live ?
also if 1 paladin keeps SS on the tank and 3 holy paladins Flash of Light the target, will it come 3 HoTs or just 1 from the one who applied SS on the tank ?
Yes, Beacon stacks in 3.2.
3 HoTs with on SS.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
I think that would depend on what one would deem a "normal healing paladin". I consider myself a traditional healing paly, making my focus melee and tanks, and leaving other raid healing to the likes of druids/shammy/coh priests. However, sadly, I acknowledge the necessity of a change with the upcoming mana adjustments.
I would like to ask, if one stuck with a build of 51/5/15 or similar variant as their primary spec, what would be the best stat combination?
Also, in a 51/20/0 build, with 4pc t8.5, would you still stack some sp and do a majority of fol?
07/22/09, 4:51 AM
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