Holy Paladin thread for Patch 3.3 changes - Page 26

Saladin · 08/06/09, 3:47 PM

Originally Posted by Silmeria

Since I have it handy since I was looking at it: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

I dunno, the counter is that to fully support Tbtl, you have to optimize purely for spellpower. This hamstrings yourself anytime you use a beacon spec by forcing you to flash predominantly. This keeps me on the fence at the moment.

I must be misunderstanding this report. I'm seeing the average FoL clocking in at 3346.2. I don't see how that can be right with field reports of 6-12k flash hits/crits, unless this is already factoring in overheal. And if so, why so much overheal? The only way a tank healer's HPS could be halved by overheal on Algalon is if someone else is predominantly assigned to the tank and is sniping prior to the FoLs landing, which seems to be the case, mostly due to the shaman and a lot of aoe heals.

The report shows Zaroua as being responsible for only 30% of the MT's healing taken--at which point you become less of a tank healer and more of a "tank padder." Is that really a role we're comfortable taking on? Or am I just being too close-minded in holding onto the old "we should be doing 60% of the MT's healing taken" model?

Zaroua · 08/06/09, 5:00 PM

Originally Posted by Saladin

I must be misunderstanding this report. I'm seeing the average FoL clocking in at 3346.2. I don't see how that can be right with field reports of 6-12k flash hits/crits, unless this is already factoring in overheal. And if so, why so much overheal? The only way a tank healer's HPS could be halved by overheal on Algalon is if someone else is predominantly assigned to the tank and is sniping prior to the FoLs landing, which seems to be the case, mostly due to the shaman and a lot of aoe heals.

The report shows Zaroua as being responsible for only 30% of the MT's healing taken--at which point you become less of a tank healer and more of a "tank padder." Is that really a role we're comfortable taking on? Or am I just being too close-minded in holding onto the old "we should be doing 60% of the MT's healing taken" model?

World of Logs seems to be pretty crappy compared to WWS and even Stasis when it comes to showing individual spell breakdowns. In any case, the 3346 number seems to be the average effective healing done per Flash. Judging by the PTR tank tests we did, Stasis reports my average Flash of Light to be around 8500, but that's without the PvP Libram (which I don't have on live yet, sue me) and missing about 400 spell power unbuffed compared to what I have on live.

In any case, we use 6 healers for Algalon, 3 full time tank healers and 3 raid healers who pad the MT between Black Hole Explosions and Cosmic Smashes - for example Outdated a raid healer did 29.5% of his effective healing on our MT Descretoria, which in turn was 9.5% of the effective healing done on the MT. Me doing 30% of the tank healing is on par, if not a tad higher than what I usually did with HL spam. In any case, it felt like Ulduar took a dump when it came to performance last time and a lot of raiders were complaining about severe or - at best - noticeable FPS drops; my computer already is terrible so I spent most of the fights at sub 10FPS.

Ichal · 08/06/09, 5:48 PM

Originally Posted by Saladin

I must be misunderstanding this report. I'm seeing the average FoL clocking in at 3346.2. I don't see how that can be right with field reports of 6-12k flash hits/crits, unless this is already factoring in overheal.

The log browser of WoL displays FoL hits and FoL HoT ticks identically, so it has probably rolled HoT ticks into the average.

madsushi · 08/06/09, 5:57 PM

Originally Posted by Ichal

The log browser of WoL displays FoL hits and FoL HoT ticks identically, so it has probably rolled HoT ticks into the average.

More importantly, the WOL browser shows a total of 0 crits for any healer or spell, which is indicative of a problem with WOL or the parse itself.

Ichal · 08/06/09, 6:23 PM

Originally Posted by madsushi

More importantly, the WOL browser shows a total of 0 crits for any healer or spell, which is indicative of a problem with WOL or the parse itself.

The log has them, they're just not marked as crits in any way:

[23:00:56.047] Zaroua Flash of Light Descretoria +10188 (O: 1486)
[23:00:56.693] Zaroua Flash of Light Descretoria +1085
[23:00:57.278] Zaroua Flash of Light Descretoria +0 (O: 11616)
[23:00:58.485] Zaroua Flash of Light Descretoria +0 (O: 11624)
[23:00:59.087] Zaroua Flash of Light Descretoria +1077
[23:01:01.286] Zaroua Flash of Light Descretoria +1078
[23:01:02.100] Zaroua Flash of Light Descretoria +5803

• frmorrison · 08/06/09, 7:09 PM

WoL sees the difference between Flash of Light and the FoL HoT. The HoT isn't great, but it is helps make Flash a more usable spell.

My WoL parse ignores crits with healing (the log doesn't say you crit healed anymore). Damage spells that crit do show up in the log though.

burghy · 08/06/09, 7:22 PM

Originally Posted by Ichal

The log browser of WoL displays FoL hits and FoL HoT ticks identically, so it has probably rolled HoT ticks into the average.

No, it shows them separately. The numbers on wol are lower because they show effective healing. In that linked log, 3346 effective healing with 64.1% overheal means ~9300 avg.
The HoT is displayed lower, 3% of his effective healing.

Skipper240 · 08/06/09, 7:31 PM

Zaroua -

Does that defense gem allow you to eat a Big Bang?

Palados · 08/06/09, 9:56 PM

Well, from my own experience my HPS went up compared to 3.1, while mana issues are mostly solved by more intensive DP/SoW usage. Beasts, XT/Hodir/Thorim hard (5, 4, 5 healers for those) were OK - never was oom. Though, finally, I had to use mana potions to feel comfortable.

On a side note - it seems that 3.2 BiS with int gemming will give way over 40k mana that together with extra crit and mp5 will make HL spam more viable than in 3.1, assuming normal fight lengths.

Jjbback · 08/06/09, 10:28 PM

Hey I was just pondering around this idea of replacing Glyph of Seal of Wis or Glyph of Seal of Light with the one for Seal of command....If you were to end up specing into Seal of Command you would get 8% mana returned every time you judged. I think losing the 5% cost reduction to HL with the Wisdom Glyph is made up for getting 8% of your massive mana pool whenever you judge.

I dont know if this makes anysense but when i think about it quickly it seems to make sense to me. Tell me if i have something wrong or if there is something big that i was overlooking.

Also you would lose like 1%crit or 1% overall healing from droping a talent point into command...but still i think this might be worth it for the mana return.

Just tell me what you think and why this will or will not be a good idea to maybe reduce the small concern for mana that 3.2 kinda added.

Palados · 08/06/09, 10:44 PM

It's 8% of base mana. Thus totally crap.

Jackinthegreen · 08/06/09, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by Skipper240

Zaroua -

Does that defense gem allow you to eat a Big Bang?

The way the heal works is it takes into account the overkill damage done before you're rezzed, then applies it in full once you come back to life. (I was "lucky" enough to test this multiple times while doing that Avatar of Freya quest chain in Sholozar Basin.) As such, there is no way a non-tank paladin can eat the big bang, because they simply don't have the health for it.

Jjbback · 08/06/09, 10:54 PM

Ahh...i was thinking with talents...thanks. I knew blizz wasnt dumb enough to give us a free mana regen like that :|

Jackinthegreen · 08/06/09, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by Jjbback

Ahh...i was thinking with talents...thanks. I knew blizz wasnt dumb enough to give us a free mana regen like that :|

If the SoW judgement proc stays in effect, we essentially -do- have free mana regen. Take a look at the parse I posted on page 14 to give an idea of how much mana return we get with only ~20k mana pool.

Palados · 08/06/09, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by Jackinthegreen

If the SoW judgement proc stays in effect, we essentially -do- have free mana regen. Take a look at the parse I posted on page 14 to give an idea of how much mana return we get with only ~20k mana pool.

And multiply by 2 for 40k mana pool. Surely it will be the next thing to nerf. 1600/800 mana from SoW/JoW with their current proc rates would be just too powerfull.