Hey everyone. I have been away for the game for a couple months. I just read over the changes upcoming in 3.3 and am wondering what people are thinking about speccing with the changes to divine guardian. Is a holy ret spec now better, or is the improved sacred shield, and (now smaller) absorb from divine guardian in the prot tree still gunna be better? It may still be too early to tell but what do people think?
I'm sure he meant the GCD in which you have to wait when you swap any librams. I wouldn't recommend libram swapping unless if it's during idle times (phase change, running, etc) At least I wouldn't bind it to my FoL and HL casts. You can make a macro to swap librams only for when you actually think the duration you'll be casting the spell is worth waiting the GCD
EDIT: I checked this when i got home today. I must say i'm surprised at first because it wasn't consuming GCD at swapping. Apparently i forgot about the in combat, out of combat thing. When in combat, it does go on GCD when you swap librams.
Hi again !!
Today I´ve tried libram swapping in Ulduar 10 hardmode (Iron Council, Freya, Thorim and Hodir) and seems to work properly.
Apparently, the only problem I´ve had is when I cast a different spell too early. For example, I am casting FoL continously, I change to HL and the first HL casted is in the middle of a casting FoL. A littler interrupt appears, but I think it´s the sema thing that happens with any spell casted too early.
Hey everyone. I have been away for the game for a couple months. I just read over the changes upcoming in 3.3 and am wondering what people are thinking about speccing with the changes to divine guardian. Is a holy ret spec now better, or is the improved sacred shield, and (now smaller) absorb from divine guardian in the prot tree still gunna be better? It may still be too early to tell but what do people think?
I think if anything, the changes are going to literally force all holy paladins to spec 51/17/+3. Divine Sacrifice is now a 20% raid wall, not 40%, but the new mechanics mean it can be used on cooldown without needing to be combined with Divine Shield with relative safety. It absorbs half the damage, but can now be used about 250% more often. Even at 20%, it's still going to be valuable and probably almost mandatory for a lot of hard modes.
The other thing is going to be if you want Divine Sacrifice, your holy paladins will have to have it, because you now need Divine Guardian to get damage reduction outside your party. that requires 17 pts in Prot, and ret pallies can not afford to take that without losing important DPS talents.
In terms of comparison, 60 second sacred shields give you about 46 mp5 in terms of mana saved with 100% SS uptime. The 5% crit from the ret tree will give you around 50 mp5 in a typical situation. Yes, having 5/5 Benediction saves some mana too, but speccing 51/17/3 barely causes you to lose any mana efficiency over speccing 51/5/15.
Apparently, the only problem I´ve had is when I cast a different spell too early. For example, I am casting FoL continously, I change to HL and the first HL casted is in the middle of a casting FoL. A littler interrupt appears, but I think it´s the sema thing that happens with any spell casted too early.
That little interrupt is the hard spell GCD you get whenever you swap a libram in combat. While 1 second isn't much in Ulduar, it can kill a tank in ToC and ICC.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
I think if anything, the changes are going to literally force all holy paladins to spec 51/17/+3. Divine Sacrifice is now a 20% raid wall, not 40%, but the new mechanics mean it can be used on cooldown without needing to be combined with Divine Shield with relative safety. It absorbs half the damage, but can now be used about 250% more often. Even at 20%, it's still going to be valuable and probably almost mandatory for a lot of hard modes.
The new DSac is 6 seconds, so you're looking at 15 seconds per 5 minutes compared to 10 previously, or 150% of its previous uptime for 50% of its previous effect.
Ideal spec will, as always, vary based on raid comp and encounter, but I'd agree that in the majority of situations a prot subspec will be preferable to ret.
A latent appliance fetishist is someone who refuses to admit to his or herself that sexual gratification can only be achieved through the use of machines.
- L. Ron Hoover
The new DSac is 6 seconds, so you're looking at 15 seconds per 5 minutes compared to 10 previously, or 150% of its previous uptime for 50% of its previous effect.
Ideal spec will, as always, vary based on raid comp and encounter, but I'd agree that in the majority of situations a prot subspec will be preferable to ret.
Looking at total divine sacrifice uptime is misleading, because normally when you are casting divine sacrifice, you are casting it to reduce raid damage for a specific event or in anticipation of a massive burst of raid wide damage. In alot of cases, its a one time raid AoE splash you are trying to mitigate or a phase that lasts <6 seconds. In those cases, the duration reduction doesn't hurt at all; it just requires more precision in when to cast DS. It's only lengthy AoE damage mechanics (like Frozen Blows for example) where the duration reduction is going to hurt.
Anyone seen what happens if 2 paladins hit DSac at the same time in PTR? One would hope they stack, But in all likely hood will not.
DiSac and Hand of Sacrifice won't stack. They won't stack interchangeably or with each other.
So, DiSac+Disac; DiSac+HoSac; HoSac+HoSac are not possible. Only one is active on one target at any time.
It seems there is another change for LoH, it says on MMO that LoH only causes Forbearance when cast on yourself. I hope that is the final version, so that Holy can cast LoH on a Prot Pally that has Forbearance and Ret can help heal a tank with LoH as well.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
The blue post regarding the LoH change seems fairly decisive. They want Paladins to have to make a choice between LoH and bubblewall when tanking, but don't want to punish Paladin tanks for having Paladin healers.
Originally Posted by JamesVZ
Yes but you can't guarantee that every 10 man raid would have Party Grenades available right now, so giving this effect to Disco Priests I think is a worthwhile endeavor.
Should we assume Sanctified Light won't remove the forbearance when LoH is cast on oneself?
Unless there's been a reversal post that I've missed, no, we shouldn't. The nerf seems aimed more at Prot and Ret Paladins, to prevent them bubble-walling and using LoH on themselves at the same time. It doesn't seem unreasonable to allow healers the ability to do so.
Looking at total divine sacrifice uptime is misleading
As is ignoring the fact that its duration has been lowered. When using DSac to mitigate short / instant bursts, the overflow in duration is relatively unimportant, but against extended or persistent AoE effects the reduction in duration is significant.
Yes, the overall impact of the changes will vary based on the types of damage it's used to mitigate, but it would be exceedingly foolish not to acknowledge that this potentially alters the value of DSac, especially regarding its ability to be chained by multiple paladins during specific intense phases.
A latent appliance fetishist is someone who refuses to admit to his or herself that sexual gratification can only be achieved through the use of machines.
- L. Ron Hoover
Unless there's been a reversal post that I've missed, no, we shouldn't. The nerf seems aimed more at Prot and Ret Paladins, to prevent them bubble-walling and using LoH on themselves at the same time. It doesn't seem unreasonable to allow healers the ability to do so.
* Infusion of Light: This talent now causes the paladin’s Flash of Light spells to heal the target for 50/100% of the Flash of Light healing amount over 12 seconds.
After reading the talent on the PTR website and the patch notes, it seems clear that we no longer have to have Sacred Shield up on a target to proc the FoL HoT. If the HoT stays the same, a Flash of Light is going to be similar to a quick Regrowth. I think I may not be seeing this right, but I can't find anything that says otherwise. If this goes through as I read it, it will be a great change for Holy Paladins.
Artificial Intelligence usually beats real stupidity.
If this goes through as I read it, it will be a great change for Holy Paladins.
Holy Pallies health per second is fine with out Flash giving a HoT to everyone, so I don't see a change necessary. Anyway, on the current PTR the HoT only works with SS up, so the tooltip writers made a mistake. Also, don't take the PTR wowhead calculator as gospel, since the PTR is a work in-progress.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
The Flash of Light HoT requires Sacred Shield on the PTR and will require Sacred Shield on live too. The patch notes might not be entirely clear, but the developers posted that it is the case.
* Lay on Hands now causes Forbearance when used on self.
* Infusion of Light now causes your Flash of Light to heal targets with Sacred Shield for an additional 50/100% over 12 sec.
Protection
* Divine Intervention now Also clears the effect of Exhaustion and Sated on the target.
Tested it on PTR as well this morning and its now functioning correctly, FoL onto someone with SS will apply the HoT but only with the talent.
Trying to figure out a good test on PTR to prove/disprove whether the %20 raid damage reduction happens before or after damage is transferred to the Paladin with DiSac and DiGard.
I am thinking that 3 people at Dire Maul's Arena.
Pally and one other in a group(with logging running, the third person starts AOEing the group of 2. Once some original damage is taken, the Pally starts DiSac.
The logs should indicate the amount of damage the other person in the group takes and the amount of damage transferred, along with the damage the Paladin took directly.
These three numbers should indicate what is occurring. Do others concur???
I think that Blizz will make it:-
Transfer the damage to the paladin based on the raw damage then apply the %20 reduction to what is left. This raw damage goes into the count of damage transferred and then 50% reduction applied. No double dipping the %20 damage reduction.
The edge cases would be does the transferred damage get the benefit of double dipping magic resistances.
Last edited by EvadDeWahr : 11/16/09 at 10:05 PM.
Reason: changed for more clarity
Should we assume Sanctified Light won't remove the forbearance when LoH is cast on oneself?
Say bye to glyph of divinity, now mass-replaced by BoL glyph. By using common logic the glyph of BoL will now provides more effective than glyph of divinity?
What do we think of the new stats on the tier 10 set? Seems like they didn't put any MP5/haste pieces, but the set looks fairly balanced though leaning more towards crit again.
With SoW and judging every ~10s how much regen does +hit give you as a stat?
With talents and debuff we have +7% hit, leaving a 10% miss chance.
Over the course of a minute, we judge 6 times, or 6*0.9=5.4. Each hit regens 4% of total mana, with a ppm chance (so weapon speed is an important factor here). A best case scenario assuming 34k buffed manapool (IE with a slow 2H weapon for 100% proc chance, obviously unrealistic but an upper bound given lack of ppm data) 5.4*4%*34k=7344 mana per min, or 612 mp5.
Adding hit rating to increase your hit by 1% requires 26.232 itemisation points.
This changes your miss chance to 9%, giving 618.8 mp5.
IE you get ~ 7 mp5 for 26 itemisation points, which isn't a great conversion.
With a realistic weapon speed you are looking at 4mp5 ish.
It is better than nothing, though!
There is also the benefit of not missing your refresh of JotP, and higher uptime on JoL, but they are harder to quantify.
If you are meleeing the boss at any time, the +hit will also increase your regen there which might make it more desirable. It is unlikely to ever be better than any *real* healing stat, but it IS better than spirit!
What do we think of the new stats on the tier 10 set? Seems like they didn't put any MP5/haste pieces, but the set looks fairly balanced though leaning more towards crit again.
11/09/09, 8:52 PM
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