Holy Paladin thread for Patch 3.3 changes - Page 83

• frmorrison · 10/28/09, 2:20 PM

Originally Posted by madsushi

My understanding of the dual-school attacks is that you need to have resistances against both in order to properly resist the spell at all.

So you are saying that is uses the lowest resistance to calculate? So if you had 75 nature and 260 shadow, the game would just use 75 to find the resists for a nature/shadow attack (so AM is useless then)?

Vyra · 10/28/09, 2:34 PM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

So you are saying that is uses the lowest resistance to calculate? So if you had 75 nature and 260 shadow, the game would just use 75 to find the resists for a nature/shadow attack (so AM is useless then)?

That is the way Frostfire Bolt's tooltip is stated to work:

Launches a bolt of frostfire at the enemy, causing 722 to 838 Frostfire damage, slowing movement speed by 40% and causing an additional 90 Frostfire damage over 9 sec. This spell will be checked against the lower of the target's Frost and Fire resists.

madsushi · 10/28/09, 2:38 PM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

So you are saying that is uses the lowest resistance to calculate? So if you had 75 nature and 260 shadow, the game would just use 75 to find the resists for a nature/shadow attack (so AM is useless then)?

That's correct. My experience is with The Black Knight's phase 3 ability that deals "shadowfrost" damage. I've used Aura Mastery + Shadow Resistance Aura and we were still taking full damage per hit. On my next run, I had a second paladin run Frost Resistance Aura, and we saw reduced damage across the board.

Rataard · 10/28/09, 5:23 PM

There are also instances in Ulduar where a "Spellfire" damage type is used, which works off both arcane and fire damage types.

In regard to a poster who said that mail will be better for crafting: I noticed that both holy plate have the haste/crit/sp combination. Why would mail be better unless it has mp5 and that's what you're going for?

In regards to a cloth/mail piece being BIS for crafted items, is because for the respective boots and leggings, the armor type he listed had the most haste for that slot of any armor type.

• frmorrison · 10/28/09, 8:55 PM

I just realized that for Holy the change to Raid Wall is a buff, since you can safely cast it every 2 minutes instead of every 5. That makes up for the change to AM.

tiberion02 · 10/29/09, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

I just realized that for Holy the change to Raid Wall is a buff, since you can safely cast it every 2 minutes instead of every 5. That makes up for the change to AM.

It's not a buff. It's got at best 20% of it's previous ability and doesnt really help a lot in the situations it was most needed (huge predictable incoming raid damage)

• frmorrison · 10/29/09, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by tiberion02

It's not a buff. It's got at best 20% of it's previous ability and doesnt really help a lot in the situations it was most needed (huge predictable incoming raid damage)

I prefer to be able to use an smaller ability 2 to 3 times instead of an ability once, and saving bubble for when I need it is nice change. In addition, the devs can assume that there isn't someone absorbing a huge amount of damage all at once.

tiberion02 · 10/29/09, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

I prefer to be able to use an smaller ability 2 to 3 times instead of an ability once, and saving bubble for when I need it is nice change. In addition, the devs can assume that there isn't someone absorbing a huge amount of damage all at once.

You're still (more then likely) going to need to save bubble for Hand of Sacrifice on the tank during the high magic bursts that have been prevalent at nearly every level of content in Wrath. Additionally, I think it's a bit silly to think that D Sac in it's current form played into boss design at any point (especially since it seems to be a bug that they've been trying to quash for 2 patches).

• frmorrison · 10/29/09, 1:08 PM

Originally Posted by tiberion02

You're still (more then likely) going to need to save bubble for Hand of Sacrifice on the tank during the high magic bursts that have been prevalent at nearly every level of content in Wrath. Additionally, I think it's a bit silly to think that D Sac in it's current form played into boss design at any point (especially since it seems to be a bug that they've been trying to quash for 2 patches).

I forgot about Hand of Sac, it will be nice to be able to use that ability again without worrying about getting killed.

Perhaps you are right about the devs ignoring the raid damage absorbs of Raid Wall, but after 2 patches of it being overpowered it would have been taken into account in 3.3, so now they don't have to worry about it absorbing so much at once. Plus Ret can't get DG without losing a lot of dps, so less absorbs from dps is easier for design.

Roknroll · 10/29/09, 6:24 PM

I could still see Ret Paladins picking this up for certain encounters that heavily benefit from it. Losing 2 points in Seals of the Pure is about a 2.5% personal DPS loss, which is significant for the paladin. But if it means raid survival on a progression fight that dps loss shouldn't hurt the raid too bad. For example a raid only running 2 paladins (ret and holy), which we ran for a while, might want their ret paladin picking up the ability. Several boss abilities work on a 1 minute or 90 second cooldown where a single raid wall every 2 minutes won't cover it.

I think in any progression fight I'd want to have at least 2 paladins with divine guardian. Holy is the obvious first choice to have it. Prot would probably be next since the added incoming damage would be negligible for them and could be healed through if it's called out. Prot can easily pick up the talent too. But if there's only two paladins in the raid and one of them is ret then the small raid dps loss is made up for by very high raid utility. One new bonefit of a ret paladin picking this up, if needed, is that they don't have to use bubble before popping it. That saves the 10 second dps penalty and also means they don't have to worry about holding off on avenging wrath.

That all is going to change fight to fight, and not all of them will really benefit from having a DG every 1 or fewer minutes. I guess my main point is: don't overlook ret paladins picking it up if the fight warrants it.

Palados · 10/29/09, 10:04 PM

edit: please delete. Answer to deleted post :P.

Roknroll · 10/30/09, 12:52 AM

Well with GC's latest post about tank damage it's really going to push us more towards flash of light. Huge nerf to tank avoidance, but lower boss damage will mean more of a steady damage stream that will allow us to use FoL a lot more w/o worrying about the tank getting killed between heals.

edit:
i just realized the post above may have been in response to the deleted post with the 'suggestions' and not real info

Jackinthegreen · 10/30/09, 2:57 AM

Originally Posted by Roknroll

Well with GC's latest post about tank damage it's really going to push us more towards flash of light. Huge nerf to tank avoidance, but lower boss damage will mean more of a steady damage stream that will allow us to use FoL a lot more w/o worrying about the tank getting killed between heals.

edit:
i just realized the post above may have been in response to the deleted post with the 'suggestions' and not real info

It may or may not push FoL use actually. To quote a blue

Icecrown isn't Naxxramas
I am pretty sure on day one of 3.3 going live this forum will be filled with tanks who died and respond with "I thought bosses weren't going to hit hard."

It's Icecrown. It's not going to be Naxx.

We'll have to see just how much damage is going out, but I'll stick with HL majority on anything but the "easy healing" type of fights.

TimWischmeier · 10/30/09, 3:27 AM

Originally Posted by Roknroll

Well with GC's latest post about tank damage it's really going to push us more towards flash of light. Huge nerf to tank avoidance, but lower boss damage will mean more of a steady damage stream that will allow us to use FoL a lot more w/o worrying about the tank getting killed between heals.

At least from my point of view it's not only the danger of a tank dying what makes me favor HL spam. It also the AE-healing through GoHL and simply the fact that I can afford to spend that much time casting HL instead of FoL. The only drawback of HL spam (or, to be exact, the strong preference of HL over FoL) is that you have to hit DP more often. From my experience, this is mostly a danger when healing significant tank damage. If they really smooth out tank damage a bit, this danger lessens. So, if they don't introduce any sigificant changes to paladin healing, I think it might favor HL style a bit more, if it event changes anything regarding paladin healing.

Mox · 10/30/09, 6:17 AM

GC also added:

I still expect many tanks will die in two hits until they get geared up a little. But they will, and then the ability to survive two hits in a row won't be as big an issue.

and also

It won't be Brutallus hard, at least most of the bosses and at least on normal mode. We're not going to be particularly sympathetic to players who find heroic mode too hard.

So I think it's pretty obvious that the damage on normal wont be hard to heal at all, but on heroic I'm forseeing tank 2-shots untill icecrown geared.

Like tim pointed out, bosses hitting for less just means you can plea more freely without risk to tank getting gibbed, these changes make HL even more favourable over FoL.