The other really nice thing about using Glyph of BoL if you're specced into Divine Guardian is it staggers out your SS and BoL falling off. If you apply both at the pull and are specced DG, both fall off 1 minute into the fight. This is not ideal because you don't want to have to burn back to back GCDs to refresh both of them in fights that demand steady healing. You're then stuck with either burning 2 GCD's, going without one of the buffs up until you can afford the GCD, or refreshing early to stagger it (wasting mana). You get the combination of less mana usage, saved GCDs and better buff refresh management.

I also agree that with the improved LoH changes, we are going to be using LoH a lot more as a tank cooldown, and not want to risk burning the cooldown on a self LoH. That makes glyph of divinity a lot less attractive come 3.2.

The imp LoH changes shouldn't change your use of imp LoH much since it gave comparable physical damage reduction to it's live form (more in fact) unless your tank is getting to the armor cap which is not likely unless they had both an armor potion and on use armor trinket effect up at the same time. The 3.2 version is only marginally more useful than the live version.

All it takes is 1 point in Improved Lay on Hands on live to push any tank's armor to, or over the cap assuming Inspiration/Ancestral Fortitude. Going for 2/2 feels somewhat redundant seeing as you'll most likely want points in Improved Wisdom instead of spending a talent point for "just" 2 minutes off of your LoH.

In 3.2, 2/2 Improved Lay on Hands becomes an actual cooldown to use on a tank.

I think you are wrong. a plain % damage reduction opposed to a % armor increase is not the same because most of the time you actually need to use a CD on the MT is when a specific school of magic is applied on the tank for a short duration. Worst case, it's a debuff that increases the physical damage taken for the tank, and the new change will also work to mitigate it. So I believe it's undoubtedly a great upgrade and will make many paladins scratch their heads as to where to get one more point in their talent tree to max this talent.

As for the comparison between BoL and LoH glyphs, I personally have been using divinity glyph for a long time now, and I've used it on my self for mana reasons no more than 3 times in months. I believe it serves better as a mechanic to save the raid a wipe. Early in 3.1 where we didn't have the huge mana pools yet, it served well for mana regen which is nowadays just a formality.

The thing nobody mentions is that in some (many?) fights, you indeed swap tanks rather frequently. If you were to maintain beacon (especially after 3.2 where you benefit most by beaconing MT and healing whoever you like), you are going to want to recast beacon on the current tank. in probably less than 45 seconds, tanks will swap again, making this glyph completely useless. changing phases, swapping tanks will not make the glyph as efficient as you would consider it to be.

Personally I'm thinking about replacing my divinity glyph with a holy shock glyph until 3.2, and reconsidering the situation with mana management once 3.2 hits.

Let's say an ulduar tank has 25k character sheet armor and no bonus armor items like rings, cloaks or enchants. A little on the high side but useful for my demonstration. Post imp LoH and AFort/Ins they have 46,875 armor. Let's add in another 2.4k armor unaffected by armor modifiers from devotion aura and stoneskin totem for a total of 49,275 armor. Let's add another 400 armor from agility buffs and they come to a total of 49,675 armor. Now that's still short of the 49,905 armor needed for the cap against lvl 83 attackers. Now in that scenario imp LoH acted as a 23.1% reduction in damage. Now this scenario is a bit unlikely given the armor levels of tanks without bonus armor items which do not scale with imp LoH or AFort/Ins. In fact for the 3.2 imp LoH to be better you would need over 2.5k additional armor post AFort/Ins but pre Imp LoH.

The cooldown is only physical damage leaving it no more useful on magic encounters than before. The only ground it gains is being able to reduce physical damage not affected by armor like Alagon's Big bang or XT's tanturm.

My bad, I didn't read the tooltip carefully. Though I still think a plain % in physical damage reduction might as well still be better for the example you have given, and also for debuffs like "decreasing armor by %" The modifier from LoH would not be as powerful as a plain physical damage reduction. Though, now i'm taking a few steps back in thinking this is a "great upgrade" since I was assuming it was a reduction in damage taken from all sources...

I disagree with this as a 10% physical damage reduction by itself is insufficient to be used as a reliable cooldown in a set rotation. Perhaps if you were cooldown stacking, this might come in handy but even then I'm fairly certain you'll have other choices that would have to be expired before you'd settle on this. If LoH was on a shorter cooldown, then yes, maybe. Currently this spell is still in the firmly in the "oh crap" spell category.

I don't see why there's a physical damage only modifier on this spell and why the amount reduced isn't 15% or more given that you can still only use it once per encounter.

LoH will be a 20% physical damage reduction, and that is a useful tank cooldown assuming all melee damage, in addition changing to % reduction instead of armor helps out on special damage, like Tantrum, which is unaffected by armor.

The cooldown is still long, but I don't see it shortened.

The reason for the damage reduction being physical only is in part to keep it fairly the same as before, the second reason is it would let paladins, and especially prot paladins chain too many cooldowns on most encounters.

^^^
Only holy paladins tend to take the talent, though, so I don't think the second reason is much of a reason at all.

Between this and the fact that I quite often end up LoHing some other caster who's run out of mana (remember, we can do that!), I give Divinity the nod. If I'm going to swap it out I'll probably go for the HS glyph over the Beacon one.

With the intent of the SS proc being to boost our FoL with the extra crit %, the new HoT effect really doesn't add much unless it's calculated including overheal, since this -should- be something we would want to keep rolling on the tank regardless of whether or not the tank needs a FoL at the moment. Otherwise it's kinda screen door on a submarine. And Divine Guardian affecting the HoT would make going 51/20 more attractive than 51/5/15.

Jury's still out for me on BoL vs using Divinity at the moment, there's some tank swap fights where it's completely useless, but there's also a fair number of fights where I enjoy the longer duration due to being able to match it up closely with boss ability timers or even entire phases of a fight. The deciding factor will probably be once I see how much worse my mana regen is in 3.2 as to whether or not I want to use Divinity for a pseudo-innervate.

Which would be true if the base cooldown didn't keep LoH out of Arenas in the first place. However, it is a buff to comps using Priests and Shamans with Inspiration/Ancestral

So I noticed just now a new intellect trinket dropping from the new 5 man on normal mode New Trinket. My first and main question is whether anyone has managed to pick it up, if so what sort of proc rate and internal cooldown are we looking at with the mana restore? With our new mana issues this looks like a very strong trinket going in if it's a 45 second cooldown (84 int, 55ish mp5).

I would suggest it looks interesting when compared against DMC:G and Pandora's in terms of pure regen if not as strong as Meteorite Crystal from Alagon (which for a lot of people will be out of reach). Thoughts anyone?

I am fairly certain that all new trinkets are standardized at a 45 ICD with different rates to proc. Assume 50 second cooldown, that is 60 mp5. I entered that trinket into Rawr, now it is below Pandara/DMC, but in 3.2 it is slightly above DMC. Solid trinket.

While under the MS effect, you probably need to chain cast your Holy Lights more than ever due to your HPS taking such a big hit...so it's a good time to pop Divine Illumination.

I either pop DI during my Plea, or I do the exact opposite approach and go for a lengthier casting break where I'll renew my SS, Beacon, refresh Judgements all the while I'm meleeing the mobs and getting heaps of mana back from Seal of Wisdom. I figure if my heals are pretty worthless anyway, there's not a huge point in spending tons of mana casting them at half efficiency. The DI thing is more for when you are forced to DP at a terrible time.

You misunderstood my comment, but this is in interesting question nevertheless.

Is it better to save DI for use during DP when you presumably would cast more heals or use it as early as possible to get the cooldown rolling. The answer is not obvious (same with DP and greatness procs.)

Using AW to "offset" the DP healing penatly seems to be a pretty common practice - but really, it provides a lot less benefit than most people realise. With Divine Plea you are healing at 50% effectiveness. The +20% AW modifier is multiplicative, not additive, so it's only increasing your HPS to 60% of normal - most paladins I talk to incorrectly believe that it's 70%.

Is it more worthwhile using your AW cooldown during DP, or to wait for a period of high damage where the additional throughput may actually be useful?

I haven't seen a fight yet where the incoming damage to the tank warrants using AW for throughput. By spamming Holy Light, we usually have enough HPS to keep up a tank even under extreme circumstances. I almost never use Avenging Wrath outside of my DP casts, because it also gives me a 30-second lockout from using DS+DiSac. I would rather DS+DiSac during high incoming damage scenarios (40% less damage incoming instead of 20% more healing) to ensure tank survival. If the tank is taking such high damage that AW healing is warranted, he's in 1-2 shot gibbing territory anyway.

I use AW when I'm alternating HL+FoL or casting HL with small wait time in between to save some mana as well as occasions like tantrum where melee and the casters are bunched in groups. I feel that the splash heals from HL helps a bit better with raid healing in such cases.

as for using it with DP, i rarely do it and do it only if i know i won't have anything else to save my AW for the next 3 minutes. I also happen to burn my divine favor during DP when I see that I'm falling behind with the tank healing and can't afford to cancel my DP.

AW also works incredibly well as a "mana neutral" tool when damage is low enough that 5k HPS from AW/Flashes is going to be sufficient to keep a tank up. With the regen from replenishment, mp5 and illumination I find I stay pretty much topped off with very little mana usage for the 20 seconds it's up. I'll be honest in saying I find I use it more in the 10 man hardmodes as such a tool it also works in the 25's for instance at the start of Thorim hard phase 2. It's also questionable as it is only 20 seconds worth but I find in certain hardmodes every little counts.

Using AW during FoL spam will generally provide a larger output boost than using it during DP, coupled with HL spam. That's discounting the new FoL HoT too, which would further widen the gap if relevant. However, replacing HL spam with FoL spam will yield approximately the same drop in HPS as using DP, but DP will start restoring more mana once you're past about 24k. FoL+AW can be used as a pseudo-DP with some success, just remember as others have said, AW will lock out BoP / Bubble + DSac / HoSac use for 2 minutes 30 seconds.

Timing CDs as a healer is vastly different to a DPS or even to a tank. It will vary from fight to fight, and vary from week to week depending on how that fight progresses each time.

The lock is for 30 seconds not 2 minutes.