Just tested it again. I tried with the 4 debuff/possibly-strike talents (JotJ, HotC, Vindication, JotW), with both seals.

IN the case of JotJ, Vengeance was applied twice, Command 3 (!) times. With each all the other talents, and without any, Vengeance once, Command twice. So it would seem that double SoComm procs are currently part of the Judgement of Command design, and not related to the JotJ thing.

Vengeance can proc at any range, Command only if in melee range.

Obviously, in each case, I only had the talent that I was testing, and none of the other three.

First time response here.

Have they upped the damage on SoC, or is it still pretty much useless? I would test this myself, but I have not been able to get on PTR to do so.

Its still useless.

The Seal damage is going a bit up, but the Judgement damage is awful. It isn't "worthless", but it really isn't worth using either.

In its current state on the PTR the only real reason to put a point into SoCo is for leveling, and if you want to be able to do slightly more damage with DS on trash packs that don't live very long. SoCo is mildly useful for PvP considering the seal hits a bit harder than SoV with 5 stacks, procs off the judgement and doesn't require any build-up time, but the judgement is no longer a guaranteed crit on stunned/incapacitated targets.

Yep, Command is great for leveling from 10 to 64. SoR (with SotP talent maxed) does more damage than Command on an AoE pack.

Since PvP games should last longer (the resilience buff), I am guessing SoV is better, since it gives more dps overtime. I haven't tried each Seal yet in a PvP situation.

Glyph of Seal of Command - You gain 8% of your base mana each time you use a Judgement with Seal of Command active

This could make Command situationally a bit more useful. Occasionally.

This appears to be just a tooltip clean up, as the previous wording said, "Redesigned to cause the Paladin to gain 8% of base mana each time the paladin judges Command" and seeing as there's no Judgement of Command anymore, the wording might cause confusion among bads.

On another note about the 10072 notes, I find it laughable that they're giving Frost and Shadow a mini-MS effect because they've got a hard time against healers while Retribution, a spec that can't kill a competent healer, gets lumped in w/ the melee being OP against casters category (hint, we're not). Meh, at least PvE is getting buffed kinda.

I'd be very surprised if Mages and Priests were the only two classes to get the mini-MS, especially as 3v3 comps tend to make them seen with a Warrior or Rogue in toe. It's looking increasingly more obvious that healing is going to be over the top in 3.2 Arena, and so I wouldn't be surprised to see every PvP-DPS spec gain some sort of equivalent effect rather than nerf healing across the board (which would make MS more powerful, relatively).

Crusader Strike to get one perhaps.

Actually, the glyph was functioning like the Blood one on live. Now it gives 8% of your base mana, as opposed to being based on damage done. I can see it being used much as hunters use viper in 5 mans and 10 mans. Start running low on mana, throw SoC up, judge a couple times and throw Vengeance back up. If done correctly, vengeance stacks wouldn't even fall off. Granted, its just easier in 5s and 10s to cut a couple consecrations, but I can at least see somewhat of a use for it now, unlike before.

You'd loose mana doing that - you could judge twice within the duration of the SoV DoT, returning 16% mana. Switching to SoComm in the first place costs 14%, and switching back to SoV costs another 14%; not to mention whatever GCD loss you incur. You'd need to have SoComm active for at minimum 25 seconds (4 Judgements) to see even a negligable mana bonus.

To make back the mana cost of a single Consecration, you'd need to have SoComm active for over 40s (7 Judgements). I doubt it'd be worth it, although I can't be bothered to calculate yea or nea at this point.

EDIT
*already covered by the two previous posters*

Here is the problem. People keep comparing SOV and SOC as if SOC does more damage than SOV before SOV has any stacks. That is true until you get to judgment which from what I have seen numbers wise is about 1/3 to 1/4th of SOV even without stacks. Not to mention stacking SOV can only take a few seconds if everything is off GCD (which if you switched when everything was off GCD it would be sorta pointless) Also keep in mind DS will stack the SOV dot on all targets in an AOE situation so the target you are switching to could be starting with more stacks than 0

The extra mana would be useless. They already changes Crusader strike which pretty much made up for our mana problems. Bad seal is a bad seal.

New preview of patch notes for the next PTR build offers an interesting change to AoW.

It's now going to proc from Melee Attacks only. I hate to assume, but will this make it be Auto-attack + Crusader Strike (Technically Melee) or just Auto-Attack. Testing will show us the answer.

Bonus(?): It'll show a notification of when it's up in floating combat text now.


Taken from MMO champion's reporting:

Divine Storm has been and always will be a melee attack.

Judgements, as of the last PTR build, are also all coded as a melee attack.

Just a tooltip update.

This is the only change from how the PTR has been functioning (as far as I am aware).

A little off the topic, but it falls under 3.2 changes nonetheless. It seems our T9 set will no longer be named after Turalyon. I'm not sure if the same holds true for the Alliance, since Liadrin is exclusively a Blood Knight figure.

All T9 sets are getting divided to alliance and horde versions. Alliance version of pally T9 is going to be named after Turalyon

T9 sets have always been named differently across Horde and Alliance: Turalyon vs. Liadrin for Paladins, Wrynn vs. Hellscream for Warriors, Koltira vs. Thassarian for Death Knights, etc.

It just so happens that the popular data-mining sites took pictures of the Alliance sets first, since most of what we really care about are the stats.

For the SoC comparisons, are we factoring in the extra seal proc? Currently on the PTR, SoV procs once on Judgements, SoC procs twice on Judgements. Assuming that JoC's extra seal proc is working as intended, aren't JoV and JoC pretty close in scaling?


From an average of 10~ judgements, I get 1700 JoVs and 1k JoCs, but SoC procs for 700 damage, which makes the judgements roughly equal. This is in hateful level PvP gear with the 200 DPS polearm from Maly10. I don't have the numbers to compare the gear scaling, but I suspect they'd be close.


edit: Using WoWhead's tooltips,

JoV:
[22% SP + 14% AP] * (stack bonus; is this 150%, or 1.1^5?)

JoC:
[19% Weapon dmg + 13% SP + 9% AP] + [36% Weapon dmg] (seal proc)

Endo already confirmed 150%, not 1.1^5 - see here back on page 4.

I'd be hesitant to base DPS calculations around an ability double-proccing, it's far too likely to be a bug which requires a correction than working as intended. Assuming a double proc is correct is a huge assumption at this stage of PTR. Especially since reports of Command triple proc and Vengeance double proc in certain circumstances - sounds like more proc based issues.

Edit: To the below - the Nightmare Tear clearly states "Unique-Equipped."

Anyone noticed that the new +10 Stats gem doesnt seem to have a 'only one can be socketed' text assosicated to it?

Think it's safe to assume it will, but if not - getting the Chaotic meta activated with those instead of the the soverign dreadstones should provide a boost of couple of DPS.