I went to ptr.wowhead.com and got a 70% chance to proc looking at the spell information.

They're reporting no ICD on the proc as well. I don't see how this proc can make it into live the way it is now. It's essentially a passive 200 STR. Can anyone confirm/deny the no ICD on this libram? If not, I know where my first 25x badges are going.

It had a 70% chance to proc before they fixed proc rate. With a 70% chance to proc and no ICD, it will have 100% uptime, and be obscenely overpowered. For live I'd expect to see something like a 30% proc rate and a 30-60 second ICD. I guarantee it's wrong.

On Wowhead it has it listed as a 70% proc rate per tick. That leads us to assume nearly 100% uptime. I have no idea if it has an internal cooldown, but a libram of that ilvl could supply 180 stats or so and it would be pretty reasonable when comparing it to guns and such of that level. If it does have an internal cooldown then it wouldn't even be an upgrade over current ones most likely.

Are you folding the DOT component of SoV's damage into that 23%, or is it that just the figure for the procs which occur after five stacks are up?

No. Literally comparing current live gear to same gear in a 3.2 environment. Neither involves the new libram. I don't have it now, so I'm directly comparing apples to apples. Commensurately, my confidence level jumps to 99% to learn the discrepancy between my spreadsheet and Redcape's appears to mostly be the libram.

If the new Libram has even a decent up-time - it'll be a DPS increase. If it's effectively 100% uptime (as during initial "broken" procs testing), it will be a bloody f'ing huge DPS increase - as you noted.

Folded - all damage from SoV - % weapon damage procs as well as the ongoing DoT damage. All assuming single L83 (Boss) target. Righteous Vengeance damage is rolled into each ability's % as well (CS's RV is part of the CS %).

For the record, I haven't bothered modeling the "ramp up" time of SoV DoT and lack of procs until it does. As Zurm has said, on a single target it takes about 3 seconds to stack to 5. Over the course of a fight missing procs on 5 attacks is negligible compared to the difference of a Dr. Pangloss Perfect Patchwerk world (our modeling tools) and actual fights.

How do you figure? The current BIS libram is 144 AP with 100% uptime. You are trying to say that 200 str (over 460 effective AP just from talents, by comparison), has to have 100% uptime to compare? No, I think not. If you look at the previous jump in ilvl of 213 to 232 (1.5 tiers), you see a jump from 120 AP to 144 AP. This time, we are only going up one tier, to ilvl 45. So by the same token, we should EXPECT to see an effective increase of ~16.4 AP. Since there is no question that the proc is 200 str, but rather rather the frequency/uptime of the proc, we should be looking for the libram to now generate about 160.4 AP, which gives us about 34.8% expected uptime. That's pretty close to the BC libram/totem uptime of ~40%, which is exactly where I'd expect this to be. It could just as well be 33%. But not, by any means of rational thought, 100%. I would put money on that.

wowhead lists the new libram as item level 251 and granting 172 AP. So for the badge libram to equal the PVP libram, it will need an uptime of 172 AP / (200 str * 1.15 * 1.1 * 2) = 34%. Of course, it can be disputed whether you'd rather have a consistent attack power boost or a proc.

Not that Fears are incredibly prevalent in PvE but Unyielding Faith might even be worth getting

Not that I'm the greatest of maths people, but where does the last 4% come from in 3.2? It only adds up to 96% total.

Selenia - I noticed I hadn't copied HoW data first time - good question. You'll see I put it in this time. Blame any missing 1% on rounding.

Live

Source	DPS	%
Autoattack	1258	22%
SoB	1303	23%
CS	830	14%
CS - RV	160	3%
JoB	572	10%
JoB - RV	121	2%
DS	451	8%
DS - RV	87	2%
Consecrate	610	11%
Exorcism	343	6%
HoW	200	3%

3.2

Source	DPS	%
Autoattack	1272	20%
SoV	1449	23%
CS	871	14%
CS - RV	167	3%
JoV	782	12%
JoV - RV	165	3%
DS	416	7%
DS - RV	80	1%
Consecrate	564	9%
Exorcism	337	5%
HoW	202	3%

These numbers use: My gear (only gem changes between live and 3.2 - not a JC, so I go from Rare to Epic gems), the effective cooldowns I've derived (which do not include HoW issues under 20%), and the assumption you can HoW for 16% of the fight.

Gems from Rare to Epic is about a 60 DPS change for me. So of impact, but not even a large contributor to increase. We are definitively getting a buff.

Taking RV above - about 7% of total damage. It's actually closer to 6.5% (due rounding in the tables above). If you crit approx 50% of the time and an RV crit does approx double damage, this would be an increase of ~3.25%.

TLDR - Looks like it's about what my previous estimates found 2 piece T9 bonus could be ~3.25% total DPS boost.

I'm also still interested in Judgement stacking, haven't heard a response. And that's a great question about stack refresh and absorb, I'm also interested. Although, unless they can remain shielded for 15 seconds of our full attack cycle it shouldn't matter.

The developer response was that classes that use Relics are balanced around those, while Warriors/Rogue get stat sticks included in their balance. I would like to see a stronger relic slot (assuming it was 200 strength, it would be better than the power of a 245 ranged weapon stat stick).

Take into account devs have even admitted that Ret was behind DPS wise where they intended us to be. The fact that a 3.1 raid libram is worse than a 3.0 libram from PVP? The fact that a greater number of stats for other classes scale much better when compared to a Ret's scaling (only thing above 1.0 is str, hit/exp) . Take into account others have possible upgrades via hard modes for these slots and we do not. I would say they must of thought the PVP librams would not have been as superior as they turned out to be. either that or they wanted to punish all Ret's who dislike it or don't have time to do it. (I personally have better things to do on my weekends than grind out the rating every patch).

I understand that many of these things point to scaling problems that come from more than just Librams but Librams were a part of it and the dps gained from a new libram cannot be based on precedence on past librams. With the new items in 3.2 bows/guns/wands/ etc could compare to 200 str on an item.

There are reports on the Official PTR Forum that SoV has been gutted, i.e. that both the DoT-stacking and direct damage procs will only proc from white swings.

These may be the usual false report filings on the Official Forums, but it'd probably be a good idea to check as and when someone is able to get on the PTR. Right now I'm not.

EDIT:

Okay, I've been able to log onto the the PTR. Crusader Strike, Judgement and Divine Storm don't interact in any way with SoV in this patch. No DoT Stacking nor direct damage procs from these instant attacks. I think Hammer of Righteousness continues to interact with SoV in the usual manner, but I don't have the tools to assess this correctly.

It sounds like a bug or the devs are trying to balance PvP better/make Command useful? I wouldn't worry about it Monday or a dev response.

Anyway, Hammer (the Prot 51 pointer) does apply a SoV stack, but I confirmed the direct damage only works with white swings.

I would strongly assume, as a change of this magnitude would make our DPS absolutely pathetic (to a point of not really being raid viable any more), that this is a bug. File a report, post a thread on the PTR boards, and don't worry about it until the next push.

Now I could see they trying to make the DoT application portion only apply to white swings while the damage proc applies to everything, which would have a negligible effect on our sustained single target DPS, in order to try to shoehorn Command into being useful for something (PvP and trash). It would have the effect of making us absolutely awful on any fight where we either have to hit multiple mobs or the boss movies out of melee range for more than 15 seconds, so I hope it isn't the case.

Or, a third option, they could be removing the baseline ability of seals to proc off special weapon swings and will re-add it as the "bonuses" to CS, Whirlwind, and Cleave to make them "special and not the same as baseline warrior abilities for 50 talent points". As usual, we always get PTR pushes of partial developer builds, so we could have caught them right smack in the middle of this change.

Maybe Blizzard never intended to push Seal of Corruption to be viable for Ret? Now they want to fix it by nerfing it for Ret, because they assumed that it might be too powerfull in combination with seals of the pure and the glyph of corruption. Corruption was always intended to be the right choice for Protection, nothing more.

If that is no bug, but intended, blizzard leaves us again with 5 free talentpoints from seals of the pure.

They have said from the beginning that SoV/Corruption was the PvE seal for Rets, and that mentality has not changed. It is a bug. There was absolutly no change to our patch notes in the newest build with the exception of an update to exo. Since there wasn't any mention at all of changing something as game breaking as was is being reported, it is safe to assume it is a bug.

Special melee attacks (yellows), not autoattacks. In essence it would just be to remove Seals proccing from Judgements, which has always felt a little odd to me, given that Seals are supposed to be something that affects your weapon swings. You would lose an ideal 7.5 procs per minute, which, at 1000 damage per proc, would be roughly 125 DPS. Given that ret is most likely a hair too high on the PTR right now I could see something like this happening.

I just went and tested on the ptr with identical gear (target dummie) with this new undocumented change i was down about 800 dps from previous build and 300 to 500 down from live i have been checking dps numbers alot on the ptr even though its not perfect it has been consistant every build and while not scientific its all we have atm.
I woud guess this is not intended and maybe they are attempting to add another mechanic in to make our rotation more interesting? Or as the previous poster said removing the seal proc on Judgments etc which makes sense.
I have no idea but this would not make it live IMHO it would definitely make us nonviable in pve.

Ah, yes. You're right. I read the proccing backwards and mistook the implications of the possible situation I was referring to.

Now while I"ll agree that an adjustment of 125dps might not be so bad, the numbers I used were just an arbitrary example, and weren't taking actual values into account, much less crits. As soon as you do that, the change in DPS suddenly becomes considerably different, especially when on a single fight like General Vezax where currently a paladin's average Seal of the Martyr hit could range from 700 average to a 2011 max, with crits ranging from 3022 average to 4483 max without even being close to having best-in-slot gear.

Granted, it's not as bad as if seals were only proccing on specials, but saying "Oh, 125 isn't so bad" just doesn't work out either.

It's a bug. All the other Seals are working correctly on the PTR.

I believe they're recoding SoV from the ground up to make it behave more consistently, but that's just conjecture.