[top]Recommended Gems

• frmorrison · 08/06/09, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by Mist

Does SoC still suffer from 5+ yard range problems with Divine Storm? If it does, it wouldn't be too reliable for AOE.

SoC is still 5 yards. Anyway, even if I had another point, I wouldn't get SoC for PvE.

djkillingspree · 08/07/09, 2:13 AM

i remember a while back, we actually didn't want 2 points in Imp. Judgements because it led to more rotation clashes. Is this still the case?

Shldnhearth · 08/07/09, 2:50 AM

That hasn't been something Ret has done since BC.

Back to HoR on taunt immune mob..... I would like to macro HoR with my normal abilities such as CS and have it taunt only if one of the listed mobs exists ( if the mob in the macro does not exist it will not cast HoR on my target).

I'm having problems getting the macro to work and I could use some help. Here is what I thought should work but isn't:

#showtooltip Crusader Strike
/startattack
/cast Crusader Strike
/cast [target=Exposed Heart, exists] Hand of Reckoning
/cast [target=VX-001, exists] Hand of Reckoning
/cast [target=Right Arm, exists] Hand of Reckoning

That's a small sample but you get the idea. Does anyone know why this wouldn't work?

Skopan · 08/07/09, 2:59 AM

Originally Posted by Arikah

[top]Recommended Gems

Sometimes you will have to ignore socket bonuses because they are terrible! This is more a guide for when you want to meet such requirements. We finally have epic gems available, and so rare cuts have been removed from the lists. Due to JC changes (removal of the prismatic portion of the dragon's eyes) all paladins are equalized in gemming options.

Metas:

[Relentless Earthsiege Diamond]
This is the preferred meta, simply because of fairly easy gem requirements. You do lose between .5 and 1 DPS between this and the CSD but you gain more DPS by not using 2 blue gems. Do not use [Chaotic Skyflare Diamond] because 2 blue gems suck.

Prismatic:
You will be using one (and only one) of these to fulfill your meta requirement. Use it in a blue slot, preferably one with a good socket bonus (like str).
[Nightmare Tear]

Red slots:
You will be gemming pure STR in everything.
[Bold Cardinal Ruby]

Yellow slots:
Hit gems should not be necessary as hit gear is plentiful - but if you REALLY want those socket bonuses...
[Etched Ametrine]

Blue slots:
If you can't find a prismatic gem for your meta you can use one of these. Using more than one blue gem results in a DPS loss.
[Sovereign Dreadstone]

The yellow gem to activate our [Relentless Earthsiege Diamond] you suggested is the [Etched Ametrine].
But as you also stated the +hit on it is fairly useless due to the abundance of hit on gear. So as long as you're hit capped why not use the [Inscribed Ametrine] instead?
The 10 crit on it only gets you roughly +0.2% crit chance but it's better than the 0 benefit you get from the 10 hit.

donmc · 08/07/09, 3:17 AM

Originally Posted by Skopan

The yellow gem to activate our [Relentless Earthsiege Diamond] you suggested is the [Etched Ametrine].
But as you also stated the +hit on it is fairly useless due to the abundance of hit on gear. So as long as you're hit capped why not use the [Inscribed Ametrine] instead?
The 10 crit on it only gets you roughly +0.2% crit chance but it's better than the 0 benefit you get from the 10 hit.

You're overlooking the Nightmare Tear which is all thats needed to activate the meta. You should only use hybrid gems if you REALLY want that socket bonus. Not very many socket bonuses are worth the loss of 10 str from using a hybrid gem.

Kromix · 08/07/09, 3:17 AM

Wouldn't it be easier to just use a single Nightmare Tear to activate the meta and forget about a purple or an orange?

Or are they not implemented yet? (I have yet to be able to log onto WoW since patch)

edit: too late

Neraya · 08/07/09, 3:33 AM

Originally Posted by Shldnhearth

That hasn't been something Ret has done since BC.

Back to HoR on taunt immune mob..... I would like to macro HoR with my normal abilities such as CS and have it taunt only if one of the listed mobs exists ( if the mob in the macro does not exist it will not cast HoR on my target).

I'm having problems getting the macro to work and I could use some help. Here is what I thought should work but isn't:

#showtooltip Crusader Strike
/startattack
/cast Crusader Strike
/cast [target=Exposed Heart, exists] Hand of Reckoning
/cast [target=VX-001, exists] Hand of Reckoning
/cast [target=Right Arm, exists] Hand of Reckoning

That's a small sample but you get the idea. Does anyone know why this wouldn't work?

Hmmm Crusader strike causing GCD thus preventing further spells? Put the HoR casts before CS maybe ? (at work, can't try myself atm)
Also... save macro space by doing only 1 cast line for HoR...

/cast [target=Exposed Heart, exists][target=VX-001, exists][target=Right Arm, exists] Hand of Reckoning

HamSlammer · 08/07/09, 3:43 AM

Originally Posted by Skopan

The yellow gem to activate our [Relentless Earthsiege Diamond] you suggested is the [Etched Ametrine].
But as you also stated the +hit on it is fairly useless due to the abundance of hit on gear. So as long as you're hit capped why not use the [Inscribed Ametrine] instead?
The 10 crit on it only gets you roughly +0.2% crit chance but it's better than the 0 benefit you get from the 10 hit.

Originally Posted by donmc

You're overlooking the Nightmare Tear which is all thats needed to activate the meta. You should only use hybrid gems if you REALLY want that socket bonus. Not very many socket bonuses are worth the loss of 10 str from using a hybrid gem.

Generally, a 6 or more Strength bonus from a Yellow socket is worthwhile to use hybrid gems for. Strength is about 2x times as good as Crit in a Hit/Dodge capped situation, meaning a Inscribed Ametrine would yield 21 points from a Yellow socket yielding a +6 bonus instead of a Bold Cardinal Ruby (20 points).

Interestingly enough, if you've used an Inscribed Ametrine somewhere in your gear, you're actually better off using a Nightmare Tear in one of your Blue sockets in lieu of a Sovereign Dreadstone.

Shldnhearth · 08/07/09, 3:44 AM

I'll give it a shot.

FWIW, I got this macro working:

#showtooltip Crusader Strike
/startattack
/cast Crusader Strike
/cast [target=focus, exists] Hand of Reckoning

I set my focus to whatever is safe to use HoR on ( XT heart when it comes out for example) with mouse button 4 and it will use HoR on cooldown when I cast CS. If I have nothing as my focus it will not taunt.

Kromix · 08/07/09, 3:50 AM

Is it worth using the SoR glyph instead of Exo glyph (if expertise capped or close to it) due to the fair bit of SoR usage? This glyph would be completely useless on fights where you do not use SoR at all (majority) but would be better than Exo glyph in cases where you used SoR (i'm assuming).

S3nsenmann · 08/07/09, 4:01 AM

So with the new Rotation meaning Crusader Strike has 4 Seconds Cooldown, Iam really struggling to keep my Rotation up, I can get one or the other Exorcism Cast through Art of War, but Consecration seems to be always in the Way whenever CS is ready again.
Is it useful to keep Consecration in the Rotation, or can you drop it?

Jackinthegreen · 08/07/09, 4:59 AM

S3, the question you asked is answered clear as day in the first post. Go through it again, and specifically look at "The Basic Rotation" part.

Kromix, it really depends on the fight of course. Exo's glyph is roughly 50 DPS according to the OP. You have to decide whether using the SoR glyph will give you more DPS than Exo for the fight(s) in question. Keep in mind Exo can go over the 50 DPS against Demon/undead mobs. It won't be the most fantastic thing you've seen, but adding damage to an attack that will always crit is nice.

Minor tidbit: Glyphing for HoR/RD might be a DPS increase since we can guarantee it'll hit. This of course is assuming it doesn't get "fixed."

Skopan · 08/07/09, 5:45 AM

Originally Posted by donmc

You're overlooking the Nightmare Tear which is all thats needed to activate the meta. You should only use hybrid gems if you REALLY want that socket bonus. Not very many socket bonuses are worth the loss of 10 str from using a hybrid gem.

Just for the hell of it I calculated the stats I would get socketing my present gear two different ways. One where I used 10x[Bold Cardinal Ruby] and 1x[Nightmare Tear] and another where I used 9x[Bold Cardinal Ruby], 1x[Inscribed Ametrine] and 1x[Nightmare Tear].

Socketing for maximum usage of socket bonuses I got this:

10x[Bold Cardinal Ruby] and 1x[Nightmare Tear]
Activating 1 socket bonus for 8 STR

Result: 218 STR, 10 AGI/STAM/INT/SPIRIT

9x[Bold Cardinal Ruby], 1x[Inscribed Ametrine] and 1x[Nightmare Tear]
Activating 2 socket bonuses for a total of 12 STR

Result: 212 STR, 10 AGI/STAM/INT/SPIRIT, 10 CRIT

Since 6 STR is better than 10 CRIT going for pure STR obviously is better in this instance, though the differences aren't that big. Which leads me to believe that depending on which sockets and socket bonuses your gear has it COULD be that using purple/orange gems becomes the better choice. Though this would probarly be very seldom.

I'm fully aware that my gear isn't the best around by a long shot, so I thought I might as well do the same to the BiS list for Alliance/Hard modes/All items in the 3.1 thread.

18x[Bold Cardinal Ruby] and 1x[Nightmare Tear]
Activating 3 socket bonuses for a total of 8 CRIT, 12 AP and 6 STR

376 STR, 12 AP, 8 CRIT, 10 AGI/STAM/INT/SPIRIT

17x[Bold Cardinal Ruby], 1x[Inscribed Ametrine] and 1x[Nightmare Tear]
Activating 4 socket bonuses for a total of 8 CRIT, 12 AP, 6 STR and 6 AGI

366 STR, 12 AP, 18 CRIT, 16 AGI, 10 STAM/INT/SPIRIT

Could someone a bit more handy with the maths show how much STR a socket bonus would have to give for it to be an advantage DPS-wise to swap a 20 STR gem for a 10 STR/10 CRIT gem? I'm asking this because the T9 helmets has a socket bonus of 8 STR which could be activated through using a [Inscribed Ametrine].

Edit: Removed part about 10 STR socket bonus question due to looking like a fool.

• Chicken · 08/07/09, 5:53 AM

Originally Posted by Razorscale

Kologarn:
Entire Fight: Same case as Mimiron Phase 4. Scroll down.
[...]
Mimiron:
[...]
Phase 4: SoR will deal more damage than SoV in this phase. However, if your raid is coordinated and require you to go all out on a specific section, use SoV.
[...]

While I, unfortunately, neglected to combat log these, I found I got better results on both these fights with SoV with some finesse. My comparison was to our other Ret Paladin who slightly outgears me and who was using SoR for both fights.

For Kologarn I started out on the Right Arm as usual, swapped to Kologarn after the Right Arm died as usual, and then once the Right Arm respawned melee'd the right Arm for ~10 seconds before swapping back to the main body to refresh my SoV DoT.

For Mimiron the same basic principle, though I swapped between the Flame Leviathan part and VX-001 part every melee swing so that both my SoV stacks would be sure to stay up in between having to run out for Shock Blast.

Ranjurm · 08/07/09, 7:09 AM

Originally Posted by Exemplar

Modeling this in my spreadsheet I don't find this occurring at any reasonable level of gear if you have Seals of the Pure. The only time SoC is superior to SoR is with a high DPS weapon and low attack power on gear. If they continue to scale similarly (logical), then SoR stays in the lead. If your AP (therefore Spellpower, too) increases more rapidly than your weapon it causes SoR to pull further ahead.

A fresh 80 in crafted gear who gets an Ulduar or Coliseum weapon could indeed find SoC superior to SoR, but it's a narrow lead. I show SoC 5 DPS better with crafted saronite gear and 25man (normal) [Justicebringer].

.....

TLDR: If you have SotP, SoC is only superior if you have a great weapon, but crap gear. Equal gear and weapon or good gear and crap weapon put SoR ahead.

I know only raid boss data is looked at normally but the lack of scaling on SP for SoC made me think that the cross over point would be more reasonable for a ret outside of a raid buffed situation, only using self provided buffs. Where would the cross over point be for that situation with it's significantly reduced AP and SP?