Our server is ridiculously laggy at the moment and its taking forever to buy anything, get mail, change gems, etc.

My point is that your loss of DPS can be attributed directly to not having your meta activated. That's a pretty big deal.

Running out of mana very quickly on training dummies, judging wisdom. Fabulous.

edit: Yeah, I'll take that back. I put more priority on judging, and that seemed to fix things. CS top priority all the time is a bit of a mana hog.

You always ran out of mana pretty fast on training dummies using consecrate.

While I appreciate your thoughts, not having a meta activated is far from a 1000 dps loss. As I said though, my recount, along with a bunch of other addons were not functioning properly, thus making all of my data inaccurate. We just downed the first fight in the Coliseum, and although there is quite a bit of movement and target swapping, I finished in the top ten damage wise.

I was around 4k dps, with judgements topping off at 14k with the damage buff.

I didn't mean to sound condescending, hope you didn't take it that way. I was just pointing out something that I've seen people on my own server overlook (of course I know it's not a 1000 dps decrease).


On a side note, I'm pretty sure they fixed the "throwing" that SoV did with DS.

Judging Righteousness does indeed proc SoR.

A couple of minor corrections (or possible corrections, I may be mistaken).

As far as I'm aware, glancing blows occur roughly 24% of the time, rather than 27%. This matches my own logs, and I believe is the widely accepted figure.

"haste does NOT decrease the GCD on our instant strikes or instant spells." - while haste does not decrease the GCD on our melee styles, I'm fairly sure it does on our instant magical attacks, ie AoW-proc exorcism and consecration. The effect is certainly very noticeable during bloodlust, unless for some obscure reason these two spells benefit from bloodlust haste, but not other sources of haste.

My combat log constantly say 24% glancing and Vulijin got 24% as well.

Haste does affect the GCD of our instant spells, not sure how that got through the old thread.

with judgements and such now being considered melee damage where does armor pen now stand for ret pallys where as before it wasn't the greatest.

although it's a melee attack it's not physical damage so arm pen is still pretty naff since only our auto attacks, crusader strikes, divine storms are actual physical damage while our seal dot/procs, consecrate, exorcism, rv and judgements are all magic damage.

If anything it might be less effective since our overall dps from crusader strike is the same however we do more of them resulting in more seal procs contributing to our damage.

Everyone say it with me now:

Melee hit tables does not mean physical damage.

figured I would get the low down, from a couple ulduar bosses and the new raid boss my dps went up signifcantly and 2 of my top 3 attacks changed, used to be Melee cruasaders strike and consecration now its melee SoV and SoV dot

When you say Seal of Vengeance, do you mean applying a stack of the DoT or proccing the 33% weapon damage strike? How many stacks of the SoV DoT did you have when you used Judgement? Same deal for Rasputin too.

Confusing ability names are confusing.

it was the 33% damage and i kept up 5 stacks on the boss at all times so when i judged there was 5 stacks.... if that answers things

Maybe I am Misunderstanding how the dot is administered from SoV. Supposedly, from what I have read, CS and DS should administer the dot to a target but judgment is apparently not. The reason i am asking is b/c only my auto attack is administering a dot to a target.

CS and DS where refreshing the stacks

Typo on the glancing, good catch. As for haste affecting instant spells, it's difficult to tell without bloodlust whether it is a 1.5s GCD or a 1.4s, so it makes sense that we didn't notice it until now...though, with how messy paladin mechanics are it wouldn't surprise me in the least if lust was a "special case". Both fixed.

As for questions about ArP and sov in general: if you have been following the PTR thread at all then you'd know that ArPen is just as crappy now as it was at the start of wrath, and this will not change unless our damage shifts to physical damage (like a warrior or feral bleeds). The SoV dot triggers from auto attacks only, this is very clearly worded in both the OP and the skill wording itself. Our strikes trigger the proc, NOT the dot. Please actually read the OP to avoid infractions

As advertised, the 33% SoV dmg does not proc from judgment, even when the 5 stack is present. Tested on Grove Walkers below Dalaran. (edit: beaten to the log ss post--I'll stop here)

On a purely anecdotal note, on the two encounters I did tonight (northrend beasts & mimiron), it seemed that my dps was tuned higher than I'd expect.

yes i found no problem keeping my 5 stack up(a worry of mine) and i was very consistent in my high dps in the fights i did. can't wait to upgrade more gear now

A quick question:

With 22 expertise rating (4 below cap) should i use the SoV glyph?

The answer is no, but by a narrow margin. The SoV glyph works out better when you drop below 22 expertise.

well i was reading up on what ya had said and i re speced my pally and got the new glyphs and went and practiced on the training guys i was doing good dps so it made me happy you already had a new build out cause i was freaking out so much lol thanks for the awesome build and taking your time to help others out