I was doing heroics tonight, after raid, and I was getting ridiculously high numbers (15k+ Judgements) without a vast number of buffs/debuffs (No CoE, Flask, Food). I was chalking it up to dumb luck and stars aligning but it kept happening. I was glancing over my new gemmings when I randomly noticed my damage range on my character sheet.

With no buffs, 2675-3192.

I'm experiencing a free ~41% damage modifier on my damage range before any talent modifiers (Crusade, 2H Spec, Imp Ret Aura, etc). I respecced, unequipped everything, removed all buffs/debuffs, nothing. I tried changing zones (Silvermoon to Area 52 to Storm Peaks) and that resolved nothing. Several guild members are reporting this same thing, on mains and alts alike.

I don't recall if I had this insane damage modifier while doing 10/25man Northrend Beasts but I definitely did during Heroics later tonight.

As far as the Divine Sacrifice not breaking on HP, I'm still having issues seeing it.

http://wowwebstats.com/4tnxowfxe3u25?s=111034-156816

was from this tuesday night, Check the Thorim #1 fight, I used sacrifice during Hodir's Frozen Blows, and it still lasted the full 10 seconds under divine shield, making me think that its not breaking on damage.

Edit : Someone delete this please.

what do you think about using glyph of SoR instead of Exo? exorcism is such a small part of our dps i think it might be better to have SoR boost for cases we'll be using it (swaping/trash/short fights/etc)

The changes to SoV doing partial weapon damage per stack tends to severely limit our SoR use to only AOE packs like lashers or portal tentacles. However, you will be using exorcism for almost all fights. The SoR glyph is extremely situational compared to Exorcism.

thanks, i wasn't aware of the fact SoV actually does something during the ramp up time. in that case it is quite reasonable not to use it as often as i thought i'd had to

//edit: typo

Here`s my combat log with a proc. Now, given, I was Protection in this screenshot because M'G was down when I tested. It's possible there is an issue with some talent that's causing the seal proc to fail? But it consistently worked every time for me.

I'm leveling up another Ret Pally (already had a raiding 80, but playing on a different server now with RL friends and they needed a Ret pally). Currently just level 67, but last night while questing I was using Hand of Reckoning to pull (since Exo isn't instant anymore). At 67 it was doing like 1K damage - I don't remember it doing much damage at all the very few times I used it in the past. So on most mobs I was able to get that off and the 1.5sec Exo before it reached me.

So the question is should HoR become part of the rotation (on non-tauntable mobs)?

What do people think the DPS difference is between SoR/SoC and SoV? Is it something like a 20-30% difference or less than that?

I'm just wondering because of those bosses where there's a lot of trash like Razorscale. Is it better to keep switching between SoV and SoR/SoC or will you take a huge DPS hit if you just stay with SoR/SoC?

HoR doesn't do damage if the taunt doesn't work.

The issue with JoV procs could be:

1) A prot/ret issue. Something in ret prevents Judgement procs or something in Prot allows it.
2) Alliance/Horde. Since you were using Vengeance there and getting procs, and I wasn't getting procs while using Corruption, maybe for whatever reason the Seals are not acting identically.

Anyone have any other ideas? I can give it a whirl speccing prot on Horde and ret on Alliance if people haven't tested it. Any other ideas on the source of the discrepancy?

I'm guessing #2, because for all intents and purposes there's no reason for them to break seals on judgements without saying anything (and likewise add it in for prot only, without saying anything); also, they've screwed up based on the difference between alliance versions of the spell and horde versions of the spell before. When I get home I'll spec ret on my dwarf and check.

[e] though I missed the "excluding judgements" note on the patch notes until now, so chances are it's still #2, however the correct behavior may be the Seal of Corruption behavior.

For soloing, I heartily recommend opening/pulling with Hand of Reckoning. The only-if-taunted clause renders the damage null in most other situations though.

Is it just me or are our ret heals a lot smaller now? I used to get 4-5K FoL crits without raid buffs, now I get 3.2K. Same with HL. My crits hit for a measly 8-9K, where I used to get 12K crits. I read through the changes to Holy and didn't see anything that looked like it would affect this. I know this doesn't have anything to do with our DPS, but it still applies to ret.

You no longer have Divinity which is both 5% additional healing and 5% again on heals to yourself.

You shouldn't be trying to hard cast Exorcism anymore. Art of War procs will make Exorcism an instant cast, and won't reset the swing timer.

EDIT: Oh yeah, forgot I had a question too. With the current rendition of Seal of Vengeance/Corruption, does anyone else feel that having an on-use haste trinket such as Shard of the Crystal Heart or Mark of Norgannon may be viable for fights such as XT-002, where getting our stack up faster means more dps potential without having to sacrifice stats on gear elsewhere?

It looks like we have a winner. In prot, on the same mobs I tested earlier, I'm getting SoV procs immediately following the Judgements of the Just refresh, as in zeidrich's screenshot above.

That would indicate an issue with Judgements of the Just. Blizz probably broke something when they fixed the "hidden debuff" of JotJ. At least that's the only real difference between a prot and a ret paladins judging.
The realm with my paladin alt is still down so could someone specc full prot but without JotJ and test again if they get SoV proccs while judging JoV?

FYI: Judgment of Command does not proc Seal of Command, but Judgement of Righteousness still double procs Seal of Righteousness. Tests done as standard Ret spec, no idea what happens if you're Prot and use either of them.

Some interesting findings on how HV's damage works:

*AW has no affect on the DOT if it is already running.
*Procs such as Greatness or berserking WILL increase DOT damage, but only for their duration.
*AW will affect the DOT if you use it first then attack, but once AW wears off, damage returns to normal.

Go ahead and try it out. I saw suspicious behavior when I AW'd in the new instance and stuff didn't work correctly, and I've checked it on a few different targets now. This doesn't mean much on its own, it just means that AW won't affect all of our damage, only some.

Edited to remove fail.