I can live with such a minor nerf. They only nerfed the Dot part about ~14%. At 10k AP (and 3K SP), this would equal a DPS loss of 80 DPS.

If they really want to nerf us, I expect harsher nerfs to come.

Grr? Is it because of how we are smoking the meters currently? I don't understand the nerf beyond wanting to slow down cleave teams, or how in current forms of AOE trash, there are just enough mobs to make us do the right amount of damage. I wonder which is the real reason?

I am surprised it wasn't hotfixed. Blizzard usually does things according to Paladins in an efficiently FAST manner.

Unless your strat for Anub'arak involves leaving the burrowers alive until phase 2 (ie. not killing them while Anub'arak is above ground), then the damage done to them by Seal of Command is not 'wasted' - yes, you'll be doing slightly less damage to the boss, but the extra damage done to the burrowers should well and truly make up for it. Of course, this only works if you tank the burrowers on top of or next to Anub'arak.

From personal experience, I'm finding Seal of Command to be amazing in this fight - the only other person who can keep up with me is a Combat Rogue. I can't find much use for it in any other fight in ToC however.

Regarding libram twisting, I was using Libram of Valiance until my SoV stacks fell off (start the fight using SoV) and then switching to the pvp libram. I didn't switch earlier as my assumption was that unequipping the Libram of Valiance would cause me to lose it's substantial buff too... given what people have been saying here, I'll need to test it later (or if someone can test and conclusively state what happens, that would be appreciated)

I highly doubt the nerf has anything to do with cleave teams in arena seeing that most rets use SoR. It also has nothing to do with aoe mobs or fights now that SoC has been changed to an actual cleave. In my opinion, it is strictly because they dont want rets on top of meters.

There are only specific fights that I am on top like Algalon, Jaraxxus, and Twins, but I really dont think this slight nerf is going to change any of that. I really have no clue why they would even bother.

Considering most mobs in Icecrown Citadel are expected to be undead, I don't think we will be hit much (if at all) with the future Seal of Corruption 3.3.0 nerf.

Everyone is freaking out about nothing. Most of the "DPS" from the seal is from the 33% weapon dmg conversion on hit after you obtain 5 stack of the DoT. The DoT is the only part that's getting nerfed which isn't a major contribution to your DPS anyway. This a much bigger nerf to prot paladins whom actually use the dot for threat than it is to ret dps.

Then why did they state it as a Patch-change, instead of "fixed a Tooltip error regarding Seal of Corruption"?

Blizzard didn't state it anywhere, it was just MMO-Champion who found that the tooltip differed from live through datamining and posted it as a change. Always take datamined changes in new patches with a grain of salt.

Ah ok
I was just confused because MMO-Champ stated "Quote from Blizzard Staff", so I thought it were actually normal Patchnotes.

As I stated earlier, with testing I found that you do keep a Holy Strength proc for its full duration(16 secs) when you swap librams and seals. For more clarification here is 2 screeen shots,

With SoV activated and Valiance libram procc'ed
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/3069/...0209084511.jpg

Swapped to SoC and Furious Libram but keeping buff
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/1...0209084514.jpg

Libram twisting has been discussed briefly over the past few pages, and mentioned once before about 6 pages back, but for a recap (not necessarily limited to the scope of your question):

1. Libram procs share a buff category such that no two can be up at once (the second will overwrite the first)
2. Swapping out a libram after it procs will not cause the proc to fade
3. Swapping to a different libram triggers its ICD if it has one (much like with trinkets)
4. Swapping to a different libram (and/or weapon) resets the swing timer of your equipped weapon and triggers the GCD, but only while in combat
(And for good measure, since it's come up a few times)
5. Using a macro to swap in a new weapon and libram immediately following a Seal cast does not incur any additional penalties beyond those of using a macro to swap seals and librams (no extra GCD triggered)

If I missed something feel free to add it, but I believe that's it.

*Edited to correct and clarify 4. & 5.*

Hep beat me to the post with screenshots that show (minus the item text showing the swap, since Valiance and the PvP librams have the same icon) you keep Holy Strength when you switch to a PvP libram without procing the PvP libram.

I knew I forgot something, thanks for reminding me. I tested it in-game just to make sure and that's still how it works. Editing the above post.

Originally Posted by Babathong

I highly doubt the nerf has anything to do with cleave teams in arena seeing that most rets use SoR. It also has nothing to do with aoe mobs or fights now that SoC has been changed to an actual cleave. In my opinion, it is strictly because they dont want rets on top of meters.

There are only specific fights that I am on top like Algalon, Jaraxxus, and Twins, but I really dont think this slight nerf is going to change any of that. I really have no clue why they would even bother.

I dont think anyone is freaking out, including myself. The post was more of a response to someone stating that maybe it had to do with rets in arena, and rets on aoe fights/mobs. Regardless, I think the reason that people are somewhat concerned is because of the track history of Blizzard handling rets during content patches.

Nothing got nerfed, it was a tooltip update.

Edit: I was wrong, fixed.

Just to further clarify, weapon/libram swapping RESETS your GCD. So if you were halfway through a GCD, you effectively lock yourself out for 2.25 seconds (assuming a 1.5s GCD) instead of 1.5. A macro works well because it does the swap immediately after the seal cast, so your actual penalty is a few milliseconds instead of large fractions of a second.

Also note that these reset your swing timer, so make sure to use a seal-swap macro tactically, when running between targets or during a lul in the fight.

Is there a way to write the macro so that it will only swap the libram if the seal is successfully cast?

With the standard macro, if you hit it in the middle of a GCD, the seal won't cast, but the libram will equip, resetting the GCD, and you'll need another GCD after that to cast the seal.

I believe such a macro exists. Credit goes to Amaranthea who originally wrote it to faciliate BV libram swapping as Protection before 3.2.2. Of course, I've editted both macros slightly.

Casts Seal of Command and then equips Deadly Gladiator's Libram of Fortitude (item ID: 42852) [change bold text as needed; char limit prevents you from using the full name of a PVP libram]

/cast Seal of Command
/run local f=RbA or CreateFrame("Frame","RbA") f:SetScript("OnEvent",function(s,e,u,p) if u=="player" and p=="Seal of Command" then EquipItemByName("42852") end end) f:RegisterEvent("UNIT_SPELLCAST_SUCCEEDED")

Casts Seal of Corruption and then equips Libram of Valiance [change bold text if Alliance]

/cast Seal of Corruption
/run local f=RbA or CreateFrame("Frame","RbA") f:SetScript("OnEvent",function(s,e,u,p) if u=="player" and p=="Seal of Corruption" then EquipItemByName("Libram of Valiance") end end) f:RegisterEvent("UNIT_SPELLCAST_SUCCEEDED")

For reference:
Deadly Gladiator's Libram of Fortitude: item ID 42852
Furious Gladiator's Libram of Fortitude: item ID 42853
Relentless Gladiator's Libram of Fortitude: item ID 42854

Unfortunately, those do not fit within the 255 char limit. Is there a simple addon somewhere to extend the limit?

vvvv Yeah, I'm an idiot. Neglected to edit out my old tooltip.

With spaces, the first is 244 characters and the second is 250 characters; however, you cannot include a tooltip and remain within the character limit.

This doesn't work with Deadly (PvP libram) since it is too long. However, would Discord (235 damage to DS) be a better choice for AoE over 120 attack power?

Without doing any detailed math, I'd think the PvP librams pull ahead the longer the AoE pack lives and the more mobs there are, as the AP increases the damage of cons as well as DS and DS has a target limit, whereas cons doesn't. However, cons gets very little benefit from AP as compared to DS (120 AP is an increase of about 6-8 damage per tick for cons, so 235 extra damage to 4 targets vs 60-80 extra damage to all targets). This is of course ignoring all other attacks, which all benefit from the AP.

Short answer, can't really think of a scenario where Discord would be better. Which basically means you're screwed out of using a macro like that with the PvP librams.

Try:
/cast Seal of Command
/run local f=RbA or CreateFrame("Frame","RbA") f:SetScript("OnEvent",function(s,e,u,p) if u=="player" and p=="Seal of Command" then EquipItemByName(42852) end end) f:RegisterEvent("UNIT_SPELLCAST_SUCCEEDED")


According to this help file on the EquipItemByName function you can use the item ID (42852) or just a partial string of its name, ie 'deadly' would work if it's the first deadly item in your inv.