dragtar

do I understand that right, that haste will give ret a more fairly dps boost than agi ?? or do I misinterpreting the threads above ??

the other thing is rawr , rawr implicating mostly agi and ap eq instead of str eq after reaching basic caps, should I ignore this and going straight to str eq ??

than a question, I saw thta my normal attack hits incl. a lot of glancing, sometimes 10 - 15 %, is there any way to reduce the glancing quota ??


(sry for my bad english)

 

Noraj

The reason it is recommending the AP / AGI gear is due to the better stat itemization on leather (if you want to learn more, there's some discussion about it earlier in the thread), as well as the high value of crit chance with the tier nine two-piece bonus.

As for glancing blows, as long as your weapon skill for the type of weapon you are currently using is at the highest possible level, glancing blows cannot be reduced any further.

"The question is not how far we are going to take it... the question is, do you possess the constitution to go as far as needed?" - Il Duce

 

janrael

Doesn't work like this - 50% haste gets you a 1 sec GCD, but 25% haste gets you a 1.2 second cast time - you only need 20% haste to get to 1.25 seconds.

Math:
Consider a 1500 second period of time. With no haste, that's 1000 gcds. With 20% haste, that should be 1200 gcds (20% haste means 20% more casts in the same amount of time). 1500 seconds and 1200 gcds gives a gcd of 1.25.

 

dragwiz3

Ok im sure im the right place for this question. I play a pally on live and i use RAWR. My question is this my dps is never what RAWR says it should be. Ive checked my spec my glyphs and my rotation and still nothing. It is usually 500-600 lower than what it should be according to RAWR. Could this just be a timing issue on my part when im goin through my rotation.

 

Glutton

A large part of the difference between your observed DPS and what is reported by Rawr can be accounted for by mistakes in configuring Rawr to reflect the encounter.

 

• frmorrison

Only on Patchwerk would Rawr be nearly correct. Besides him, most other encounters involve moving or some adds that need to be taken care of. In a future release of Rawr it will have options to attempt to model the boss encounter.

Rawr is still the best tool out there.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Glutton

I would highly recommend SimulationCraft as an alternative. Its data breakdown for each ability is much more informative than Rawr. I find myself using it as a measuring stick versus my WMO or WOL parses to evaluate to what degree I'm slacking on my rotation or melee hits.

 

dedmonwakeen

It really isn't about one or the other. SimulationCraft and Rawr compliment each other very well. However, SimC has a steep learning curve and Rawr's formulation architecture allows for a nice gear optimizer, so for most users Rawr is usually the first place to check.

http://code.google.com/p/simulationcraft

 

Kvaern

Did they change something about auras in the minipatch this week?

Being the only ret in a 10 togc today I had the 3% bonuses drop midfight after switching to fr aura and I noticed the bonus also drops if you zone with a non ret aura enabled (Not sure if t also did this previously).

 

• Arikah

No, it's been doing this since 3.2, namely because of the introduction of auras auto-applying after death function that was added. It's still doing this on the PTR iirc, I would encourage people that are on the PTR to report this bug, since they still seem to not know about it.

 

roshomon

Has there been any insight on the value of the T9 4P bonus? Its claimed paltry and time will tell if its worth it in the initial post. I'm in a unique opportunity where I can pick up the T9.5 gloves (side grade from my current set. Only addition is the 4p bonus and I can drop my hit ring for my haste ring) or I can pick up the 9.5 shoulders to upgrade from my T9 shoulders for a + 13 strength bonus, but remain with 3 pieces. Any suggestions?

 

• frmorrison

4 Piece is between 40-60 dps bonus which isn't that great (with 2p being 150-250 dps). The OP is still accurate.

Rawr can tell you when item swapping is better, it is really good program. It is an interesting mini-game for me finding out which combination of items with reach the hit and exp caps. Assuming you were replacing similar item level items, then the 4 piece is slightly better.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Glutton

Retribution's priority order is simple and getting it "wrong" doesn't have a huge effect on your overall DPS. The three largest factors in your performance are gear, latency, and familiarity with the encounter. Clearly he out gears you. There's no way to address the other two factors without more information.

If you think you're having rotation problems, then you can objectively evaluate this issue through SimulationCraft. Load up your gear set and compare the usage number of each ability to one of your logs in a relatively stationary fight (e.g. Lord Jaraxxus).

 

SBMaster86

My guild leader tells me that even though he out gears me, it isn't a sufficient excuse for the dps difference. Personally, I think he's full of crap. He believes that I should be doing at least 6-6.5k with my current gear.

I want to make it clear that I believe it is most definitely NOT a rotation issue. The only thing I can think of along those lines that might make a difference is when I use AW. I always wait until I have a full 5-stack of Vengeance on my target before firing it off, but that's about it. Would it be a significant dps increase to hold off on it until I see the 1000 AP proc from my trinket? My only concern about that is that it's difficult to know when it goes off, since it has no easily visible notification that it has done so, and it seems to be very unreliable in proccing in the first place.

 

chinoquezada

There are a lot of "personal ability factors" that greatly increase your dps.

1. Correct Usage of CLCRET

It's not just downloading the addon, you need to specify the correct prioritization according to your gear.
You may believe that you are doing your rotation fine, but every ret paladin (including myself) that has switched to CLCRET will tell you how invaluable and necessary this tool truly has become.


2. Stacking AoW with trinket procs.

If you want to output your highest dps possible, this is also a must.
CLCRET + Internal Cooldowns can help you with this (after a bit of tweaking)


Are some of the major ones that come to mind right now.



From what I can see in your armory, you should be doing more than 5k dps. Your Raid Leader is not full of BS, you are slacking.


For more info on how to setup your UI/Addons to maximize your dps I suggest you read each and every post on the following link: Retribution UI: The key to successful facerolling

 

Lesrek

As said above, latency can play a huge part into your dps. As an example, when I am at home, I have about 30 ms ping. When I go to my parents and use their wireless, I have ~290. I lose about 1k dps on most of the ToC fights when I play at my parents.

You also kind of answered your own question. When you use AW can make a huge difference in your dps. If you look at the last few pages in the UI thread, people are looking for mods that show the internal CD of greatness and death's choice. The reason is so they can hit wings as these abilities proc. Since you don't have greatness, and are using the holiday Mirror of Truth, get an addon like MSBT and configure it to alert you when you get the buff from it. Usually these trinkets pop in the first 20 seconds of a fight. It is also extremely important to use your AW during lust/heroism combined with a haste pot.

Outside of the two above issues, I cannot really explain why there would be a massive dps gap. Money is not that difficult to come by in the game and greatness decks have become a lot cheaper of late. Also, Death's Choice should be obtainable and is the best in slot trinket.

 

• frmorrison

Pursuant of Justice is a dps increase, get it. You could do 6k dps in that gear.

What may be happening is not hitting your buttons fast enough. Ret is nearly GCD locked, so there is usually some button to hit. How you can check if you are hitting the button fast enough is comparing the number of CS, Judge, and DS cast with the other Ret.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

dragons

I totally agree, He might have the Justicebringer on his side but doesnt have 1 Tier 9.5 item on only 3 normal Tier 9's. Another thing that came to my mind is that he's not expertise capped 18 points due the Vengeance glyph instead off the 26. So its clear that 5k is about rite indeed.

 

greatdum

He should definitely do 5k+ in his gear. It all comes to situational awareness and pressing buttons in time. I am top3 lowest geared in our 25-mans tho I always manage to be among top5 dps (EDIT: in my gear I do 5k+, I am worse geared than this guy). Try to watch logs of that other pally and compare what is different in yours.

 

Kagtuuk

I don't see why there should be that much difference. The GCD is a client side check, and we are completely GCD based. I play with ~300 latency and I can push my DPS to what RAWR tells me I can do. Even if I go into RAWR and change the "Delay" value it's only a few hundred DPS, not 1k.

SBMaster86: For what it's worth, according to RAWR my DPS is right about where yours is (It is telling me 6700 for yours. Mine is around that value as well but don't know mine exactly because I logged out in PvP gear). I have found that RAWR is very accurate for my actual DPS values. Make sure you start spamming your next abilities before the GCD is finished rather than waiting and clicking once. I personally don't really see how your DPS wouldn't go up at all using CLCRet, it helped me out a lot.

 

jgRnt

What you are assuming is that it's a fight where the paladin can stand and utilize his gcd's to the fullest, but when it comes to other factors where ms do play a part, a difference of 250ms can even make you miss upkeeps on debuffs such as vengeance on such a fight as Icehowl for example. A scenario where you have to reapply your vengeance stack would lower your dps considerably. The full damage from colored balls can be missed at valkyr twins with alot of ms delay and power up can get delayed and cause you to not do as much dps as if you played on 30ms.

What I'm trying to say is that a 250ms increase can play a part in your dps output and depending on factors, to a varying degree.

Kreml High - Stormscale EU

 

Kagtuuk

I should clarify that my argument was against his DPS being 'lowered by 1K on most ToC fights' being strictly a factor of 30ms vs 290ms. 1K is a lot.

I'm not trying to argue that latency makes no difference. It most certainly does.

 

rpalchau

I would say even in a worst case scenario (lag, fight variables), you shouldn't be 1k dps below the Rawr estimate. (Jarax normal is probably the most Patchwerk-like fight in TotC, its probably a reasonable fight to use as a comparison.) I have a worldoflogs parse showing me at 8635.8 dps for a ~3min kill, and the Rawr theoretical puts me at 8852 (no hero, fight time 3min, latency numbers as default). Its obviously not an exact match, but not outlandishly off either.

I would recommend you get a worldoflogs parse or something similar for you to compare your ability use against the other ret. You already identified the other area you could improve, timing AW with trinket. Get Power Auras or configure clcret to show your trinket proc in a clear manner.

 

Glutton

A word of caution - by default in Rawr you're looking at a single target fight with no adds whatsoever. WoL doesn't have a "DPS to boss" filter, so a nontrivial amount of damage to Infernals and Mistresses is being lumped into the DPS calculation. Your DPS to Jaraxxus + adds may be near some number in Rawr, but it's a coincidence and likely obscures that you may be able to significantly improve your performance relative to the ideal. WMO does provide a DTB metric, and I suppose you could calculate it manually from WoL.