Retribution: Updated for 3.3 - Page 51

• Zurm · 09/10/09, 8:32 AM

Originally Posted by merdolin

I Just wanted to ask what seals you're using in totc (only heroic mode matters to me).

I disagree with virtually every conclusion you made there. Seal of Vengeance/Corruption is my seal of choice for every encounter. I only swap to SoR for parts of Anub'arak, and I won't go into details there. Every place where you said you had to use SoR due to stacks falling is likely due to poor positioning on your part or an inefficient strat/tank position. Even on a fight with heavy swapping like Jaraxxus it is possible to maintain a stack on the boss while helping with new targets, and on that fight in particular melee avoid hard swaps for the spawned adds and use cleaves instead.

Originally Posted by Babathong

Mana issues on Anub will be solely dependent on how many paladins you have, and how many times per add phase you use HW. On hard mode, I would only use it once per pack of adds(4). This occurs only 3-4 times during the entire fight, thus making it a non issue for the most part.

Even when I had swapped glyphs and used HW every 15 seconds I had no mana issues. The burrow phase is an opportunity to recover mana. If you are up to Anub 25H, you almost certainly have the gear that benefits from a judgement first priority instead of CS.

Maylander · 09/10/09, 9:04 AM

Originally Posted by Zurm

I disagree with virtually every conclusion you made there. Seal of Vengeance/Corruption is my seal of choice for every encounter. I only swap to SoR for parts of Anub'arak, and I won't go into details there. Every place where you said you had to use SoR due to stacks falling is likely due to poor positioning on your part or an inefficient strat/tank position. Even on a fight with heavy swapping like Jaraxxus it is possible to maintain a stack on the boss while helping with new targets, and on that fight in particular melee avoid hard swaps for the spawned adds and use cleaves instead.

I think he was referring to the portals on Jarax, not the adds. After the hotfix, the 2nd add will spawn fairly fast (8 seconds? 10?), so most guilds that don't have redicilously high DPS will need every available DPSer 100% on the portal untill it's down. Vis Maior is certainly not a guild that should be used as an example in such cases, as you guys most definetly have significantly higher average damage than most. The more casual guilds will need every drop of DPS they can squeeze out to bring down the portal before the 2nd add comes.

Oh, and I've only done the heroic version of the 10 man, not 25 man, so I wouldn't know how much is required there. I do know that I had to go SoR and all out nuke on the portal to bring it down in the X seconds we had to do it before the add spawned. Again, this was after the hotfix, not before.

That is the only place I've used SoR with success in Totc. I have attempted to use several places, but I always end up switching back, simply because SoV is that much better (especially with the libram).

zamm · 09/10/09, 10:09 AM

Please could I get some advice on improving my DPS. On RAWR the DPS it gives my gear set (from last night, I got some upgrades) was about 7200. Yet I am not getting close to that on any boss. Does RAWR over estimate DPS, or is it the DPS on a specific encounter, or do I suck? I am using the (HoW), CS, judge, DS, cons, exo FCFS rotation and popping wings as soon as the 5 stack SoV is up, and then when it is off CD, although I try to save the last one for when HoW is active. I run at 200-300 latency most of the time.

ToC 25 run from last night;

WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay

Any advice on anywhere I can improve would be greatly appreciated.

• Zurm · 09/10/09, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by zamm

Does RAWR over estimate DPS, or is it the DPS on a specific encounter, or do I suck?

I'm not able to actually look over your logs right now (why are you still using WMO over World of Logs?), but Rawr functions on ideals. It assumes you have very low latency/reaction time, and are always on the target. It's a tool to determine the best gearset, with a long-term DPS number as the value with which to base that on. It is NOT a "predict my DPS" tool, unless everything you fight is like a long patchwerk fight.

On some fights in Ulduar, such as Algalon, you can get very close to your estimated DPS in Rawr. That's not the case with any Tot(G)C encounter.

EDIT: Also, http://elitistjerks.com/f76/a45-here...p_me_not_suck/

Posts like this are generally frowned upon; at the very least PM it. Furthermore, it was probably a better post for the Rawr thread.

HamSlammer · 09/10/09, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by Maylander

I think he was referring to the portals on Jarax, not the adds. After the hotfix, the 2nd add will spawn fairly fast (8 seconds? 10?), so most guilds that don't have redicilously high DPS will need every available DPSer 100% on the portal untill it's down. Vis Maior is certainly not a guild that should be used as an example in such cases, as you guys most definetly have significantly higher average damage than most. The more casual guilds will need every drop of DPS they can squeeze out to bring down the portal before the 2nd add comes.

I'm inclined to believe Zurm in this case and I think you slightly misinterpreted what he wrote. He does swap to portals, he does not swap Seals and I do the same, even after the hotfix. And since the hotfix has been implemented, I still believe any guild capable of downing NRB should be able to drop the portals before a 2nd Maiden spawns.

And while on the topic of HM Jaraxxus, you can taunt the Nether Portals and Infernal Volcanos for extra damage. Oddly enough, both the Portal and Volcano seem to melee targets at random for 11k~

• frmorrison · 09/10/09, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Zurm

Even on a fight with heavy swapping like Jaraxxus it is possible to maintain a stack on the boss while helping with new targets, and on that fight in particular melee avoid hard swaps for the spawned adds and use cleaves instead.

If you are up to Anub 25H, you almost certainly have the gear that benefits from a judgement first priority instead of CS.

Zurm is right, using a focus frame for the boss or another mod to track the SoV dot is a good idea. I believe 5 seconds remaining is when you should swap back to the boss until SoV is refreshed, then swap back to the adds.

Is the Judgement before CS better with the bugged 2T9? Certainly in 3.2.2 the answer is yes.

• Zurm · 09/10/09, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

Is the Judgement before CS better with the bugged 2T9? Certainly in 3.2.2 the answer is yes.

Even if not, there is so much movement and swapping in Tot(G)C that I end up using Judgement first anyway. But if I'm wrong I appologize.

• frmorrison · 09/10/09, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Zurm

Even if not, there is so much movement and swapping in Tot(G)C that I end up using Judgement first anyway. But if I'm wrong I appologize.

3.2.2 will likely not be next week, so I guess I need to think about it some (the crit on RV would make the answer easy). The 3% crit buff is already up (elemental is good with totems), however the Judgement effect is still useful.

I was having mana issues on the adds due on Jarax due to no JoW on adds and spamming Holy Wrath in addition to normal abilities, so a Judgement priority would be help that. Also the difference in Rawr is 5-10 dps less (after turning off T9), but I think I will try Judgement first.

zamm · 09/10/09, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Seferio

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

We have 3 Ret Paladins, 2 are on Eydis Darkbane and I am the Paladin on Fjola Lightbane. You can see the extra RV damage from both sides.

Here is another log from twins. I was on Light and tiimmy was on dark. As you can see I was gaining RV damage from somewhere, although tiimmy was not.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Player	total crit	30% crit	RV	RV/total crit
Zamm	338416	101525	167728	49.6%
Tiimmy	320887	96266	94908	29.6%

Total crit is for Judge, CS and DS only.

i hope this is of use.

HamSlammer · 09/10/09, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by zamm

Here is another log from twins. I was on Light and tiimmy was on dark. As you can see I was gaining RV damage from somewhere, although tiimmy was not.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Player	total crit	30% crit	RV	RV/total crit
Zamm	338416	101525	167728	49.6%
Tiimmy	320887	96266	94908	29.6%

Total crit is for Judge, CS and DS only.

i hope this is of use.

Actually, Tiimmy was as he's only specced 2/3 RV (for whatever reason).

I think it's safe to assume from the two posted logs and my own that Righteous Vengeance is double dipping into the Essence buffs, much like it did on Thaddius with Positive/Negative charges.

akdjr · 09/10/09, 2:27 PM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

Zurm is right, using a focus frame for the boss or another mod to track the SoV dot is a good idea. I believe 5 seconds remaining is when you should swap back to the boss until SoV is refreshed, then swap back to the adds.

Is the Judgement before CS better with the bugged 2T9? Certainly in 3.2.2 the answer is yes.

The Retribution FCFS Helper (clcret) mod (I believe it was the natural evolution of the serious help in timing mod) can easily track seal of vengeance durations across multiple mobs. It seems to work pretty well so far and would highly recommend it just for the vengeance tracking.

Arikah · 09/10/09, 3:54 PM

On the advice of our holy paladin actually, I've personally been using Fortex. It can be setup to reliably track your SoV dots on multiple targets, as well as tracking both your debuffs and cooldowns while looking pretty... hell, it even tracks DMC/Death's Choice ICDs by default. In fact, I'll add it to the OP in the mods section :s

As for twins and RV, our warrior experiences the same thing with his deep wounds, so it wouldn't be too far fetched to say that thad's double dipping is back on twins. I can't wait until 2pc is fixed though - for giggles I equipped it for twins and managed to see a 20k RV crit. It'll be nice when that happens 50% of the time instead of once in a blue moon!

Seferio · 09/10/09, 6:03 PM

For the TotC bosses I tend to use SoV/SoC for the boss and Seal twist to SoR on the adds unless they have high enough HP to live through 15+ seconds of DPS. Depending on where the adds are tanked and how far they are from the boss, I feel that you should have a spare global somewhere in there to change Seals. Keeping SoV on the boss is a free 500+ DPS depending on your gear.

Also, you don't have to use a mod to track your SoV DoT duration. If you're good enough, you keep track of how many swings you have done on the new mob. I get one last swing on the boss to refresh SoV, then move to the add, attack 3 times then run back to the boss. If you have WF you could quite feasibly attack 4 times on the add before returning to the boss, but that will depend on how much time you need to waste running.

Collections · 09/10/09, 10:01 PM

I have noted a lot more rets with 21crit and 2 blue gems, plus a 10 stats of late - is this a baddie trend or is chasing socket bonuses getting to be a better option then just stick Bold Cardinals everywhere?

Also Arikah, I did end up switching Jewelcrafting for Tailoring. I'm noticing on ToGC Beasts and Jaraxxus a 25% up time. Our Jaraxxus kill was almost exactly 7 minutes, and it proc'd 8 times.

greatrichie · 09/10/09, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by Collections

I have noted a lot more rets with 21crit and 2 blue gems, plus a 10 stats of late - is this a baddie trend or is chasing socket bonuses getting to be a better option then just stick Bold Cardinals everywhere?

Also Arikah, I did end up switching Jewelcrafting for Tailoring. I'm noticing on ToGC Beasts and Jaraxxus a 25% up time. Our Jaraxxus kill was almost exactly 7 minutes, and it proc'd 8 times.

baddie trend. Purple gems are never a good thing. Str/Crit is ok with a working T9 2pc in yellow slots with a str bonus of 4 or more though.